Second Shetland Truck System Report Part 74

2323. But princ.i.p.ally on the workmanship?-Yes, it depends in great measure on that; and that is the reason why there are constant disputes with the knitters. Two knitters may come in with two shawls made of the same material and the same size and yet the one will be 25 per cent. better than the other, on account of the work bestowed upon it, and the niceness of the pattern; but it is very difficult to get these girls to understand that they should be paid according to that.

2324. Can you show me any instance of a shawl made of Yorkshire wool for which you paid 20s.? That would be rather a fine quality, would it not?-Yes; that would be mohair or alpaca.

2325. But not the finest quality?-No, not the finest.

2326. We may take that as an average quality. You said it would take about half a pound of material to make the shawl; but you also said that the finer the wools are, the less thread it takes to make them. How much would it take to make a shawl of that kind?-Perhaps it would take 6 oz.

2327. That would be about 7s. 6d. for the material?-Yes; but a great deal depends on the way in which [Page 48] it is knitted. It is almost impossible to say, except with a very special article, what the knitter would get for it, because this is not like a uniform trade at all.

2328. Then you fix the price to the knitter according to the judgment of your eye?-Yes, after the work is brought back.

Properly speaking, every shawl requires to be priced individually.

2329. Between what sums would you say that the price of the workmanship of a shawl made of that sort of stuff would vary?- That depends entirely on the workmanship itself. Some of the best knitters we have in town put very high prices on their work.

2330. I am a.s.suming that it varies; but there must be a limit to it.

Can you not give what would be about the average?-I will give an instance. About a fortnight ago I bought a shawl from a girl for 35s., made of common Yorkshire wool. It was her own material, and she just came in with it, and sold it over the counter. The material of that shawl, for which I gave her 35s., had not cost her 4s. It was a half-square shawl. It is still lying in the shop, and I can produce it if it is desired. The whole value of that article depended on the workmanship contained in it.

2331. Is it a black or white shawl?-White. It is not even fine Shetland worsted, which is the most valuable sort of thing.

2332. Is fine Shetland worsted more valuable than the other worsted at 32s?-Yes, we can always get a better price; and indeed the article is much more valuable when made of fine white Shetland wool than of fine white English wool, because there is a hardness and coa.r.s.eness in the English wool that is not in the Shetland.

2333. But you don't pay so much as 32s. per pound for Shetland wool in any case?-No, I doubt think we pay so much as that for it, but the Shetland wool is more rare. The supply of it is limited.

You can get any quant.i.ty of mohair or alpaca, but you cannot get any quant.i.ty of fine Shetland wool.

2334. Do you purchase that quality of fine Shetland wool to any extent?-I buy some of it. I have paid as high as 6d. a cut of nominally 100 threads for it; but that was a rare article. 4d. per cut is the usual thing.

2335. How much is that per pound?-We don't reckon the Shetland worsted by the pound.

2336. But as you do so little business in giving out work, I suppose you don't purchase great quant.i.ties of the Shetland wool for your own use?-No.

2337. Is there any other part of the evidence you wish to refer to?-There is another question, 44,301, where Mr. Walker is asked, 'Is it all done through the middle-man?'-referring to the buying of woollen goods: he says, 'Through the merchants. Then, in considering the hosiery matter, when you leave the town, you come to the middle-men, merchants, or merchant factors, or merchant proprietors; in which case the knitters are their tenants.

All worsted goods taken and sold in town are virtually taken surrept.i.tiously or on the sly.' I wish to remark with regard to that, that I never heard of such a thing until I saw it here.

2338. Are there hosiery merchants and worsted merchants in the country?-Yes, here and there.

2339. Do they possess any hold over the knitters?-I suppose in some cases they will be factors for the proprietors, and these knitters will be living in family with the tenants who have the holdings.

2340. Do you know any instance of such hosiery merchants being proprietors in the country?-I don't know about them being proprietors.

2341. Or factors for proprietors?-I suppose Spence & Co., in Unst, are in that position.

2342. Are they hosiery merchants?-They deal extensively in hosiery; and I understand they are factors or lessees or the greater part of the island.

2343. But the other fish-curers generally are not hosiery merchants?-I think not, as a rule.

2344. Then you deny that, as a general rule, knitters are bound in any way to sell to dealers in the country?-I never heard of such a thing before especially this statement, that all worsted goods taken and sold in town are virtually taken surrept.i.tiously. That may be true, but I never heard it till I read it in this evidence; and I don't believe it is true.

2345. Do you often send orders to the country?-Yes; we send orders to the merchants in the country for hosiery just the same as we order goods from the south, and the merchants in the country make them up.

2346. Do they have their profit on the hosiery in the first instance?-I suppose so. We pay them in cash.

2347. And you have a commission or a profit in your turn?-Yes, we must have that otherwise it would be no object for us to buy the articles.

2348. Is there any other point in the previous evidence which you wish to mention?-I don't think there is anything else.

2349. Is there any other correction you wish make upon that evidence, or upon the evidence which has been taken here, so far as you have heard it?-No. I heard the evidence of several of these knitting women, and I have no reason to doubt its general correctness.

2350. Is it the case that the knitters are more commonly in debt to the merchant than the other way,-that they are generally rather behind in their accounts with him?-In my own case, I don't think that is so, at least not to any extent.

2351. In a bad season do they not fall behind, and require credit to some extent from the merchant?-I don't think that obtains very much with the knitters. It would obtain more with the fishermen and heads of houses.

2352. But if a woman is depending entirely on knitting for her livelihood, and the prices of provisions are high, while at the same time the prices for knitted goods may happen to be low, is it usual for a merchant to make advances to her in goods or, in cash?- There being no system of cash payments, I would not say that I would make advances of cash to her.

2353. But would the merchant, in such a case, make advances to her in goods?-He probably would. We know most of these knitting girls, and we would not see them at a loss for anything they actually required. I believe most of the dealers would be ready to help them in that way.

2354. Does that come to be any inducement to the knitting women to sell their goods to particular merchants afterwards, or to submit to take their payments in goods when, in other circ.u.mstances, they would prefer to have them in cash?-I think, in many cases, if they were in debt to me, they would not scruple very much at walking off and dealing with some other body afterwards, and leaving my debt to take its chance; for they know there would be no legal proceedings taken-no summoning, or anything of that kind. I never heard of any case in Lerwick where a knitter was summoned for any balance which she was due.

2355. Perhaps the balances generally are so small, that it is not worth the merchants' while to summon the women for them?-I daresay that is the case. I have been told that one of the witnesses yesterday, Mrs. Arcus, referred to the state of the trade in my late fathers time and said it was better then, because the women who made these goods were in the habit of getting meal and groceries from my father for them.

2356. Was that actually the case?-It was. For a great many years my father kept meal, barley, rice, sugar, soap, tea, and all sorts of provisions; but the consequence was, that when newer dealers came into the trade, and went more extensively into the drapery goods, then the knitters and people selling for drapery came more upon my father for groceries, on which there was a much smaller profit; and of course that put us to a great disadvantage. The consequence was, that we gradually gave up the grocery part of the trade. I believe that is the explanation of the statement, which I daresay was quite correct.

2357. Of course there are some women who live entirely by knitting? Can you explain how they supply themselves with food if they are paid entirely or almost entirely with goods? Have you turned your [Page 49] attention to that point at all?-No, I must say I was rather astonished to hear some of the evidence which has been given here, although, I have no doubt it was quite correct. It had not occurred to me that some of these women were under such conditions as it appears they are.

2358. However, you have not turned your attention to that point?-No, but I have no doubt that what they said was quite correct; and perhaps there is a grievance there which ought to be remedied. I show you an entry in my invoice-book of a dozen gentleman's drawers sold for 48s., which is exactly the price paid for them in goods. My customer does not pay for eighteen months, so that I lose the interest for that time; and there is also 5 per cent.

off at the end of the eighteen months. The two next items are in precisely the same position. They are charged at the nominal prices which we have paid for them in goods.

2359. The long credit which you give, in that case, arises from the state of the market in London?-Yes; these London houses are generally long in paying.

2360. But cannot you get your customers here, from whom you buy the goods, to take less for them?-No, we don't require to do that. I believe that when a woman makes a pair of drawers, or anything else that kind, she cannot be paid for them with less than 4s.

2361. Is that an article in which you deal extensively?-Yes; we buy a good many of them, but it is an article on which we have no profit.

2362. A statement has been made in this inquiry, that the success of a merchant in Shetland consists in being able to acc.u.mulate such an amount of bad debts about him as thirls the whole families in a neighbourhood to him, and then he gets on: do you concur in that statement?-I think that statement must have been intended as a burlesque. I cannot understand how any man could thrive by acc.u.mulating a large amount of bad debts. I read the statement at the time, but I could not understand it.

2363. It can only mean this: that the man has a number of debts which his debtors have difficulty in paying, but that they are in the course of earning money year after year and that they are compelled to spend entire earnings in is shop: do you think that is the case?-I can only say that in my own business I make a point of making as few debts as possible, and never any bad ones. To make bad debts I should consider a misfortune rather than a piece of good luck.

2364. But they may not be bad debts, although payment of them may be delayed for a long time. It is perhaps a misnomer, to call them bad debts?-Yes I should say so.

2365. I understand you were engaged at one time in the whaling agency business?-Yes, for some years. My brother-in-law and partner managed that part of the business; and he purposes to come forward and give some evidence, and produce books which he kept at that time. We went out of that trade last spring.

Lerwick, January 4, 1872, ROBERT SINCLAIR, examined.

2366. You are the princ.i.p.al partner of the firm of Robert Sinclair & Co., merchants in Lerwick?-I am the sole partner of that firm.

2367. Your stock, I understand, consists of drapery goods and tea?-Drapery, millinery, boots and shoes, tea, and various other articles. I also keep various kinds of groceries-not many; but there are tea, soap, soda, and blue.

2368. You do not keep provisions?-Not provisions.