Second Shetland Truck System Report Part 345

14,683. Do you mean that it is not the fact that it is his interest to do so?-It is not his interest; and it is not the fact that he does it, to my knowledge.

14,684. Is it not the interest of the agent to get man to take goods from him?-It is the interest of the agent to sell goods to a man, but not to get him into his debt.

14,685. But if a man takes goods from the agent, is he not in the agent's debt?-He does not leave it as debt. When a man gets his wages, it is the interest of the agent to sell as much goods to him as possible; but that is a cash transaction over the counter after the settlement

14,686. Are there many such cash transactions?-A good many-not so many at the time of settlement; but we see the men repeatedly after they have been paid.

14,687. Do they come back to you and spend part of the cash they have got?-Yes. I cannot tell whether it is the same cash or not, but they do spend cash. We see them almost daily.

14,688. When you have been settling in Mr. Tait's office with the men who had been at Greenland, was it usual, when they came down from the Custom House, to ask them if they wanted any goods?-Sometimes we did that, and sometimes not; but we never pressed them to take goods.

14,689. But it was not unusual to ask them?-We might ask them if they required anything, and sometimes they bought something from us after settlement.

14,690. In that case would it be added to their account at the time, or would there just be a handing back of the cash to you for the goods?-Just a handing back of the cash.

14,691. Such purchases are usually made after settlement?-They are always made after settlement, at least almost invariably; but occasionally I have seen men purchasing goods and laying them aside until they got their money, and then paying for them. In that case the goods were not entered into any book, but were just put up into a parcel and laid aside for them.

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Lerwick, January 29, 1872, Dr. ROBERT COWIE, examined.

14,692. You are a medical pract.i.tioner in Lerwick?-I am.

14,693. Are you a native of Shetland?-Yes; a native of Lerwick.

14,694. Have you lived here almost all your life?-Yes; except when I was south for my education.

14,695. I presume you have had many opportunities of mixing with all orders of people here in the course of the practice of your profession, and also previously to some extent?-I have.

14,696. You are acquainted with the fact that a system of barter prevails very extensively in different parts of the islands?-Yes, almost universally.

14,697. And that both fish and hosiery are paid for, to a considerable extent, in that way?-Yes.

14,698. With regard to hosiery, has it come within your own knowledge that knitters are paid in goods to an extent that is unwholesome for themselves and for the community?-Yes, in drapery goods.

14,699. In what way has that been forced upon your attention?- Sometimes in the discharge of my professional duties, I have observed that there was an utter disproportion between the clothing and the food of these knitters. I am no judge as to the value or quality of the goods, but many of them are clothed in a very gaudy, showy manner, and in a way quite inconsistent with their position in life. I have reason to know at the same time that their food is utterly insufficient. I have known knitting girls, one might almost say, starving or very nearly, starving, when they were at the same time very well dressed or dressed in a very showy manner; and I would give an ill.u.s.tration of that. I remember one Sunday, between one and two o'clock in the afternoon, being called in to see a poor man, in Lerwick. He was very ill, and evidently dying. He asked me if I could prescribe anything that would relieve him, and I replied that I knew of no medicine that could really do him good,-that the only thing I could recommend was some sherry wine and beef tea. His reply was, if it came to that, it was utterly out of the question, for he had not the means of getting such luxuries. He told me that all the money they had in the house was a single shilling, and that they had lived for some days, as far as I remember, entirely upon tea and bread. A few minutes after having that conversation with him, I saw the poor man's daughter-who was his only daughter, so far as I am aware, and who lived with him-going to church, dressed like a fine lady.

That struck me as being a very deplorable state of matters. Here were a family who were on the verge of starvation, and unable to get medical comforts for their dying parent, and yet the daughter, who was a knitter, was I might almost say magnificently dressed.

14,700. Is that the strongest and most striking instance of the kind that has come under your notice?-I think it is, in that form.

14,701. Have you seen other instances in which you were led to believe that the state of things was similar?-Yes, very similar.

On many occasions knitters have consulted me as to their health, complaining of certain forms of dyspepsia. I inquired as to their food, and found it was very insufficient, while at the same time they were well dressed, at least apparently well dressed. But I would remark as to their dress, that I have reason to believe that the dress which the knitting girls in Lerwick and girls of the lower orders all over Shetland wear is not adapted to the climate. There is too much cotton in it; it is too thin, and it is insufficient to protect them from the inclemency of the weather. In former times in Shetland a great deal of the clothing worn by the females was home-made: it consisted of woollen garments, which were much better adapted to the climate.

14,702. Is it not the case that in the country districts the women still make the greater part of their own clothing?-I suppose they do; but what I intended to refer to just now was their inside clothing. I think there is too much cotton worn now, and not sufficient warm worsted clothing.

14,703. Then the worsted underclothing which the Shetland women make is entirely for the market, not for their own use?- I fear they sell it and buy cotton underclothing instead. I believe the disproportion, as I may term it, which exists between the food and the clothing of these knitters is chiefly, if not entirely, due to the system of truck by which they are paid.

14,704. Do you refer to the difficulty which they have in getting money for their work?-Yes; and to the fact that they get goods, chiefly drapery goods, for it.

14,705. Do you think that induces them to take larger quant.i.ty of dress than they really need?-I think so.

14,706. But at the same time you say that they do not have a sufficient amount of good underclothing?-Yes. I do not think they have a sufficient amount of good, warm, substantial underclothing for the climate in which they live.

14,707. Might they not get that if they required it in return for their work?-I suppose they might, but the fact is that they very seldom have it. They rather prefer to take showy outside clothing.

14,708. If women are reduced to distress for food, but yet have a considerable supply of handsome clothing, would you not suppose it natural that they should have recourse to the p.a.w.nbroker's shop in winter, or when they were in straits?-I would, but I am not quite sure if there is a p.a.w.nbroker's shop here. There is a sort of p.a.w.n in the town, but I don't think it is much resorted to. I have no doubt, if they were in a large city, they would resort to the p.a.w.nbroker's; but p.a.w.nbroking is practically unknown here. The people, some way or other, have not got into the way of it.

14,709. Have you known any cases in which women, in a state of distress for food, have sold their clothes to private individuals for it, or have endeavoured to do so?-I am aware that there are one or more old women employed, either regularly or occasionally, in going round the houses and hawking clothes which had been obtained by knitters for their goods. On one occasion I met in with one of these women. I was seeing a patient in the house of one of the lower orders, and the woman came in with some article of children's clothing to sell. I inquired how she had got it, and I was told that she was hawking it for some person who had got it for knitting goods.

14,710. Then she had not bought it, but was selling it as the agent of another person?-Yes. She was selling it, as I understood, as the agent of the knitter.

14,711. Have you had opportunities of obtaining any knowledge with regard to the amount of immorality which prevails in Lerwick?-I have heard, and I have reason to believe, that it prevails to a very considerable extent; but I have had no means of obtaining any accurate knowledge on the subject.

14,712. Are you aware whether the amount of professional prost.i.tution is greater in Lerwick than in other places of the same size?-I am not very well acquainted with small towns similar to Lerwick; there are only one or two small towns that I know well. I am better acquainted with large cities, such as Edinburgh and Aberdeen; but I scarcely think that in Lerwick there is a greater amount of professionals prost.i.tution, in proportion to the size of the place, than there would be in a seaport town of a similar size.

14,713. Would you say there was a larger amount of occasional prost.i.tution?-I believe there is. I don't think I could prove it, but I have good reason to believe so.

14,714. Is that from knowledge which you have obtained in the discharge of your professional duties, or is it from general observation?-It is partly from hearsay, and partly from general observation.

14,715. Can you ascribe that in any degree to the system of barter which prevails?-I think it may to a large extent be accounted for by that system; because the knitters, I believe, are insufficiently supplied with food, and they are supplied with plenty of handsome clothing. They are thus led to walk about the streets good deal, and are in that way led into evil courses.

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14,716. Is that an opinion which you have entertained for some time?-Yes. I think it is to be expected in the ordinary course of events, that if women, have insufficient food and plenty of showy clothing, they will be more apt to go astray than others who have comfortable homes, and plenty of food and clothing in keeping with their position in life.

14,717. You are aware, I presume, that statistics show the amount of illegitimacy in Shetland to be less than it is in many parts of Scotland?-I am aware of that.

14,718. Is not that inconsistent to some extent, or apparently inconsistent, with the opinion you have expressed about the state of morals in Lerwick?-It is apparently inconsistent; but I am afraid that in Shetland we get credit for a higher state of morality than we are ent.i.tled to, in the country districts.

14,719. Do you mean that the system of registration here is not efficient?-I mean merely that the Registrar General's returns do not always show that illegitimacy corresponds with immorality.

14,720. Is that in consequence of the marriages being celebrated at such times as show the existence of what clergymen call antenuptial fornication?-It is partly in consequence of that, but not altogether.

14,721. Then is it possible to reconcile these statistics entirely with the prevalence of an excessive amount of immorality?-I have heard attempts to explain it, but I don't know if they were satisfactory. However, it is such a delicate matter that I would rather not enter further into it.

14,722. Have you no satisfactory explanation to give on the subject?-No.

14,723. Has it fallen within your observation, that the want of food has had any physical effect upon the women employed in knitting?-I remember being recently told by a respectable married woman, who was very well acquainted with the habits of knitting girls, that many of them enjoyed very good health, and felt pretty well and vigorous during the first two or three days of the week, but became languid towards the end of it; and she explained that circ.u.mstance in this way: These girls got an extra supply of food on the Sat.u.r.day night, and they walked about a good deal during the Sunday, which, as it were, recruited them; but towards the end of the week their supplies got exhausted, and they did not enjoy much out-door exercise, and therefore became languid.

14,724. How do you account for their obtaining an extra supply of food on the Sat.u.r.day night?-They were probably settling then. Many of them, I may explain, are not mere knitters, but are otherwise occupied. They are very ready, I believe, to take other work when they can get it, and many of them live not wholly by their own exertions, but partly on their parents and friends; therefore there would be extra supplies of food and groceries going into the house on the Sat.u.r.day night, which they had enjoyed during the first days of the week.

14,725. Have you been aware of cases in which the way of dealing has led to the formation of imprudent habits on the part of the women?-I think they are very extravagant as regards dress.

14,726. Do they also expend a great deal of money on what may be called luxuries in food, rather than upon what is necessary, when they have money?-I think they do. The lower orders in Shetland use a very large amount of tea, much more than is good for them. It is very strong tea, and they take it very frequently during the day-I think to an unwholesome extent. I think it injures their health very considerably.

14,727. Is oatmeal still used to a great extent as an article of diet?-It is used in the country districts, but I think not so much in Lerwick. Here it is more loaf bread that is used.

14,728. In what form is oatmeal generally used in the houses of the poorer Shetlanders?-I think it is chiefly in cakes, what would be called scones in Scotland. I don't think it is so much in porridge, so far as I am aware.