Works of John Bunyan Volume II Part 160

4. If Paul's call to Philippi had been by the vision of a woman, or woman's meeting: what an argument would this man have drawn from thence to have justified his women's meetings? But since it was by a man, he hath lost an argument thereby. Though he, notwithstanding, doth adventure to say, that G.o.d so approved of that meeting, as then, and at that time, to take advantage to make known his mind and will to them concerning Jesus Christ.

5. And now I am in, since Mr. K. will needs have this scripture to justify such a practice, I wonder that he so lightly overlooked Paul's going to that meeting, for thither he went to be sure (Acts 16:13-16). Yea how fairly, to his thinking, might he have pleaded, that Paul by this act of his, was a great lover, countenancer and commender of those he calls the women's meetings. Paul went to the women's meeting at Philippi, therefore it is lawful for the women of gospel churches to separate from their brethren, and to congregate by themselves for the performance of some parts of divine worship.

I say how easily might he have said this, and then have popt in those two verses above quoted, and so have killed the old one?

[11]For the word lies liable to be abused by the ignorance of men, and it had been better than it is, if this had been the first time that this man had served it so, for the justification of his rigid principles; but when men, out of a fond conceit of their own abilities, or of prejudice to them that contradict their errors, are tempted to shew their folly, they will not want an opportunity from false glosses put upon the text, to do it.

6. But Paul went to that company to preach Christ's gospel to them, not for that they merited his coming, but of the grace of G.o.d, as also did Peter and John, when at the hour of prayer they went up into the temple, and Paul into the synagogue at Antioch (Acts 3:1-3, 13:14-16). But as fairly might this man have urged, that the healing of the lame man that lay at that time at the gate of the temple, and the conversion of them by Paul at Antioch, was by the procurement of the prayers of the sisters and by their reading of the law in that synagogue at Antioch, as to argue as he has done, that G.o.d was so well pleased, or so well approved of that woman's meeting as he feigns it at Philippi, as to send, &c. to them his minister.

7. But again, that this woman's meeting should be so deserving, and that while they were without the faith of Christ, as to procure a gospel minister to be sent unto them, that Christ might to them be made known, and yet that so few of them should be converted to the faith, seems a greater paradox to me. For we read not that one of the women then, or of them of the town, that did use to go to that meeting (for Lydia was of Thyatira), was ever converted to Christ; brethren we read of several, but we hear not of any one more of those women (v 40). But Lydia worshipped G.o.d, therefore her practice might prevail. Although it is said she worshipped G.o.d, yet she was but a proselyte, as those Acts 13 were, and knew no more of Christ than the eunuch did (Acts 8). But hold, she had faith, will that make all practice acceptable; yea, law and commandment to others, and the work of those that have none, meritorious? But we must touch upon these things anon.

Objection.

"But (saith Mr. K.) Malachi 3:16 doth countenance these meetings."

Answer.

Not at all; though Mr. K. has pleased to change a term in the text, to make it speak his mind; for he has put out thought, and put in call; but all will not do his work; for when he has done what he can, it will be difficult to make that scripture say, It is the duty of women in gospel churches to separate from their brethren, to perform divine worship among themselves.

Objection.

"But Jude 20 doth justify these meetings, except," saith he, "any will say, women are not to be built up in their most holy faith."

Answer.

How fain would the man lay hold on something, only he wants divine help, that is, the word of G.o.d, to bottom his things upon. But doth the apostle here at all treat of the women and their meetings, or are they only the beloved; and to be built up, &c. speaks he not there to the church, which consisteth of men and women? and are not men the more n.o.ble part in all the churches of Christ?

But can women no other way be built up in their most holy faith, but by meetings of their own without their men? But, Building up YOURSELVES, I suppose is the thing he holds by. But cannot the church, and every woman in it, build up themselves without their woman's meetings? wherefore have they the word, their closet, and the grace of meditation, but to build up themselves withal? He saith not, "Build up one another," but if he had, it might well have been done without a woman's meeting. But anything to save a drowning man. This text then is written to the church of Christ, by which it is exhorted to faith and prayer; but it speaks not a word of a woman's meeting, and therefore it is fooling with the word to suggest it. I cannot therefore, while I see this impertinent dealing, but think our argumentator dotes, or takes upon him to be a head of those he thinks to rule over. The woman's letter to me also seems to import the same, when they say, "Mr. K. would desire to know what objections you have against it (his arguments), and he is ready to give his further advice."

Thus having taken from his arguments those holy words of G.o.d which he has abused, to make them stand; I come next to the arguments themselves, and intend to pick their bones for the crows.

1stly,

He saith, "That the same spirit that was in Miriam, is also in all G.o.d's servants for the same end, both to pray for mercies we stand in need of, and to praise G.o.d for mercies received."

Answer.

1. But the question is, whether Miriam did, as she led out the women to dance, act only as an ordinary saint. And if you evade this, you choose the tongue of the crafty, and use the words of deceit; for she managed that work as she was "Miriam the prophetess"; and in your next, pray tell your women so.

2. But as Miriam the prophetess, she did not lead the women from their men, to worship in some place remote by themselves, as we have shewed before.

2dly, He saith, "That G.o.d hath promised to pour out his Spirit in gospel times to that very end, that women might pray together apart from men."

Answer.

1. Not mentioning again what was said before: I add, if by men, he means the brethren, the prophet will not be his voucher, for he neither saith nor intimates such a thing.

2. And how far short this saying is, of making of G.o.d and his holy prophet, the author of schism in worship, and an encouragement unto schism therein, it is best in time that he looks to it. For if they may withdraw to do thus at one time, they may withdraw to do thus at another. And if the Spirit is given to them to this very end, that they may go by themselves from the church, to perform this divine worship at one time, they may, for what bounds this man has set them, go by themselves to do thus always. But, as I said, the whole of this proposition being false, the error is still the greater.

3dly,

"G.o.d," saith he, "hath so well approved of women meeting together to pray in gospel times, as then, and at that time, to take occasion to make known his mind and will to them concerning Jesus Christ"

(Acts 16:13).

Answer.

Let the reader consider what was said before, and now it follows; if this a.s.sertion be true, then the popish doctrine of merit is good, yea the worst sort of it, which is, works done before faith.

For that we read of none of these women save Lydia feared or worshipped G.o.d; and yet saith he, G.o.d so approved of that meeting as then, and at that time, to send them his gospel, which is one of the richest blessings; nor will it help to lay Cornelius, now in my way, for the deservings here were, for ought we read, of women that feared not G.o.d. Here Lydia only bare that character; it is said SHE worshipped G.o.d, but she was not all the women.

But Mr. K. saith thus of them all. I know also there was faith in some in Messias to come, though when he came, they knew not his person; but this is not the case neither; these women, who held up as he feigned, this meeting, were not as we read of, of this people.

4thly,

He said, "That Esther and her maids fasted and prayed, and the Lord gave a gracious return, or answer and deliverance." That is, to the church, that then was under the rage of Haman.

Answer.

Let the reader remember what was said before, and now I ask this man,

1. Whether Mordecai and the good men then did not pray and fast as well as she? And if so, Whether they might not obtain at least, some little of the mercy, as well as those women? If so,

2. Whether Mr. K., in applying the deliverance of this people to the prayer of the queen and her maids, for he lays it only there, be not deceitfully arguing, and do not tend to puff up that s.e.x, to their hurt and damage! Yea whether it doth not tend to make them unruly and headstrong? But if they be more gently inclined to obedience, no thanks to Mr. K.

3. And if I should ask Mr. K. who gave him authority to attribute thus the deliverance of this people, to who and what prayers he please, I suppose it would not be easy for him to answer. The text saith not that the prayers of these women procured the blessing.

But Mr. K. hath here a woman's meeting to vindicate, and therefore it is that he is thus out in his mind. Prayers were heard and the church was delivered. And I doubt not but that these good women had hand and heart in the work. But should all be admitted that Mr. K. hath said as to this also, yet this scripture, as hath already been proved, will not justify his woman's meeting.

5thly,

"He makes his appeal to the women, if they have not obtained, by their prayers in these their meetings, many blessed returns of prayer from G.o.d, both to themselves and the church of G.o.d."

Answer.

I count this no whit better than the very worst of his paper, for besides the silliness of his appeal, by which he makes these good women to be judges in their own cause, his words have a direct tendency in them to puff them up to their destruction. I have wondered sometimes, to see when something extraordinary hath happened to the church of G.o.d for good, that a few women meeting together to pray, should be possessed with a conceit, that they fetched the benefit down from heaven, when perhaps ten thousand men in the land prayed for the mercy as hard as they. Yea I have observed, that though the things bestowed, were not so much as thought of by them, yet they have been apt to conclude that their meeting together has done it. But poor women, you are to be pitied; your tempter is to bear the blame, to wit, this man and his fellows.

I come now to some objections that may yet be thought on: and will speak a word to them.

Objection.

It is said, "Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them" (matt 18:20).

Answer.

To gather together in Christ's name, is to gather together by his authority; That is, by his law and commandment (Acts 4:17,18,30, 5:28,40; Col 3:17). But we have no law of Christ, nor commandment, that the women of this or that church, should separate themselves from their brethren, to maintain meetings among themselves, for the performing of divine worship: and therefore such meetings cannot be in his name; that is, by his authority, law, and commandment; and so ought not to be at all.

Objection.

"But women may, if sent for by them of their own s.e.x, come to see them when they are sick, and when so come together, pray in that a.s.sembly before they part."

Answer.