Works of John Bunyan Volume II Part 39

Ha Friend? I had thought thou hadst not been so much hardened; art thou not ashamed thus to slight the death of the Man Chris Jesus on the cross; and reckon it not effectually for salvation, but sayest, the church is redeemed by Christ Jesus which is revealed within. and to confirm it, thou dost also corruptly bring in two scriptures.

The one saith, "Whereunto I also labour according to his working, which worketh in me mightily." By which word Paul signifies thus much, "That as G.o.d was with him in the ministry of the word, so did he also strive according to his working which wrought in him mightily." what is this to the purpose (See Col 1:26-30)? And also, the other scripture makes nothing to prove, that the church of G.o.d is redeemed by Christ within, as he is within. Only you must corrupt the scriptures, and be transform (though ministers of darkness) into an angel of light, if you will do any mischief.

And now, that thy answer is false, I shall clearly prove. Fist, because thou deniest that redemption was wrought out for sinners by the Man Christ Jesus on the cross, or tree, on Mount Calvary; when the scripture saith plainly, that when he did hang on the tree, then did he bear all our sins there in his own body (1Peter 2:24). And secondly, being within; when the work of the Spirit of Christ in believers, is to make known to the soul by dwelling within, which way and how they were redeemed by the Man Christ Jesus on the cross. And this I prove farther, because when thou art forced to answer to these words, why did the Man Christ Jesus hang on the cross on Mount Calvary for the sins of his children?

Thou sayest, because they wickedly judged him to be a blasphemer.

Friend, I did not ask thee why the Jews did put him to death? But why was he crucified there for the sins of his children? But thou willing to cover over thine error, goest on cunningly saying, and though their envy they persecuted him to death, for an evil doer.

This is one ground at least, &c.

Friend, but that thou art ashamed to own the gospel of Jesus Christ, thou wouldest have said, he was crucified there for the sins of the world; and by his offering up of himself upon the cross, he did for ever perfect them that are sanctified. Nay, thou wouldest have studied to exalt his dying there; first, by shewing what a sad condition we were in without it; Secondly, by holding forth the manifold and great privileges that we have by his dying for us there. But thou art at enmity against the things of G.o.d, as is clearly seen by those that have indeed the spirit of G.o.d in them, and are enabled thereby to discern you. and though you say, there is no other that can forgive sin, but the blood of G.o.d. Yet thou deniest, that the blood of him, who was, and is truly G.o.d as well as Man, Christ Jesus: I say, thou deniest that his blood that was shed without Jerusalem Gates, doth wash away sin from the saints of G.o.d: and cunningly (though not at this time uttered) concluding that the blood of G.o.d was shed for sin on a cross within. If it be not so, then call me liar; but it will clearly appear so to be in your answer to my third query.

Query 3. What scripture have you to prove, that Christ is, or was crucified within you, dead within you, risen within you, ascended within you?

Thy answer is, There is no scripture that mentions every of our names in particular. and thy standing of us, so I judge. But Christ is within us, that we do not deny, and he is the Lamb that was slain in the streets of the great city, which is spiritually called Sodom, and Egypt (mind spiritually) and he is now risen, and ascended; this we know, and leave thee to receive a further answer from them that are led by a spirit of delusion.

Friend, How dost thou run about the bush, seeking to scrabble up an answer, but findest not a right one, and wouldest also fain hold out, that Christ is, or was crucified within, dead within, risen and ascended within; but seeing thou canst not with or by the scriptures give an answer; then see in thyself left of them, through the strength of carnal reason, thou goest about this way.

Is there any of our names made mention of in scripture, or to that purpose, and wouldst fain infer from thence, that because we have names, though not mentioned in scripture, therefore, Christ is, and was crucified within, though not mentioned in the scriptures.

Friend, they sophistry deceives thee.

The second Argument, which is like the first, is this, He is the Lamb slain in the streets of the great city, spiritually called Sodom and Egypt. Now from the word "spiritually," thou wouldest willingly infer also, that Christ is and was crucified within, dead within, and risen within you, and therefore thou sayest, mind spiritually. Friend, I may well mind thy spiritual wickedness, by which thou wouldest willingly cover thy heresy, but it will not be. Though thou dare not speak plainly in so many words, yet the thoughts of thy heart are made manifest, by the words that flow from thee.

Ah Friend! That thou couldest but close with the truth, and venture thy soul upon what was done by Jesus on the cross without the gates of Jerusalem, for it is by and through that blood that was there shed that we have redemption (Heb 13:12 compare with Col 1:20), and remission of sins (Eph 1:7 and 1Peter 2:24).

Query 4. My fourth query was, Is that very Man that was crucified between two thieves, whose name was Jesus the Son of Mary, is he the very Christ of G.o.d, yea, or nay?

Thy Answer is, Yes, he is the very Christ of G.o.d, which was before the world was, by whom the world was made, who was made manifest from Mary's womb, and was persecuted to death by the Scribes and Pharisees, in whose steps thou treadest in asking subtile questions to ensnare the innocent, as they did. Read thy example (sayest thou) and thyself to be an enemy to G.o.d's Christ.

This Answer is doubtfully given, I did not ask thee whether he was the Christ of G.o.d, that was before the world was; but I asked thee whether he was the Christ of G.o.d, that did hang between two thieves on Mount Calvary. Now I know the Christ of G.o.d was before the world was; but thou art afraid to look upon him, as suffering on the cross on Mount Calvary, between two thieves for our sins.

But contrary-wise, wouldst willingly own him to be no otherwise, but as he was before the world, which thing is very dangerous; for he that doth so, doth lay aside all things, that in his own person he did in the flesh that he took from the Virgin Mary, as to justification and salvation; only supposing him to be but an example, and so bespatters all his merit and righteousness, by your false conclusions, which in his own person he accomplished for our justification.

And Friend, hadst thou not been afraid of thyself, thou wouldst have been so far from calling these my queries, subtil questions, that thou wouldst have owned them, and have given a sober Christian answer to them, instead of a railing accusation. But it matters not, it hath but made thee shew thyself the more, which peradventure for a time might otherwise have lien hid.

Query 5. My fifth query was, "Is that very man with that very body within you, yea, or no?" to which thou answerest: "The very Christ of G.o.d is within us, we dare not deny him; and we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones, as the Ephesians were: they that are led with a spirit of delusion, shall answer the rest of this thy query, if they will."

Thy answer is nothing to the question, for I did not ask, whether the Spirit of Christ was in thee? (though I question the truth of that) But I asked you whether that very Man, with that very body, (or the body of Christ that was hanged on the cross) be within you?

But I see you are minded to famble,6 and will not answer plainly.

But thou answerest, saying, "We are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones, as the Ephesians were." This is nothing to the purpose neither; for it is one thing for a man to be a member of the flesh and bones of Christ, and another thing to have the flesh and bones of Christ within him. What, because believers are members one of another, must they therefore be also one in another? No. Even so, though a believer be a member of the body, flesh and bones of Christ; it doth not therefor follow, that Christ, flesh and bones is within him. But thou art loth to discover thyself in plain terms, though thou art made manifest full sore against thy will; for thou dost here also, though very cunningly, signify, that thou ownest Christ no otherwise, but as he is within. And to own him no otherwise, is still against the gospel and faith of the Apostles, who said, they were absent from him while they were at home in the body, or here below (2Cor 5:6).

Query 6. My sixth query was this, "Was that very Jesus, that was born of the Virgin Mary, a real man of flesh and bones after his resurrection out of Joseph's sepulchre, yea, or nay. The scriptures say he was; and if so, then did that man go away from his disciples, and not into them, as the scriptures declare; or did he with that body of flesh go into his disciples, as some fond dreamers think."

Thy answer is, What the scripture speaks of Christ, we own to be truth, and own him to be what the scriptures speak of him; and all men's imaginations of him we deny, and their false interpretations of the scripture concerning him. and let the fond dreamers, who err in their thoughts, be reproved; for we dare own nothing but what the Spirit of the Lord bears witness of according to the scriptures. And thus far I and answer in behalf of the Quakers; and let them that are led with a spirit of delusion answer the rest, which concerns themselves.

This answer hath some pretended fairness in it. But yet we know you, that you can wrest the scriptures to your own destruction; and that is clear, in that though you say you own him as the scriptures speak of him, yet you deny him as the scriptures speak of him in part. And if at any time you plead on truth, it is that you might by your corrupt dealing with that, clash against another: as for instance: You profess you own Christ within, but withal, with that doctrine you sill smite against the doctrine of Christ Jesus in his person without, and deny that though that is a truth, as is also the other. You do use the truth of the resurrection of saints, from a state of nature, to a state of grace, to fight against that truth of the resurrection of the bodies of saints out of their graves; together with other things that I might add, as you holding forth the intercession of the Spirit of Christ within, in opposition to the intercession of Christ in his person without in the heavens. Which things being thus done, they shew forth a great deal either of ignorance or presumption, knowingly to fight against the truth. And in this that thou answerest so generally, and not particularly to the question, it is evident that thou dost not plainly declare thy mind, but dost keep that in thy bosom, which thou darest not manifest to the world.

Query 7. My seventh query was, "Hath that Christ that was with G.o.d the Father before the world was, no other body but his church?"

If you say No, as it is your wonted course; then again I ask you, "what was that in which he did bear our sins, was, or is, the church of G.o.d, yea, or no?" Again, if you say he hath no other body but his church, then I ask, What that was that was taken down from the cross? But here thou puttest a stop to the rest of my words, with an &c.

Thy answer is, I this thou hast not only queried, but slandered; therefore thy slander (sayest thou) I do remove. It is our wonted course, sayest thou, to say, that Christ hath no other body but his church. thou art here a false accuser. But we say, the church is Christ's body; and it is sufficient for salvation to know Christ Jesus to be head in us, and over us, and ourselves to be members of his body; which thou sayest is his church. And what thou intendest by making so many foldings in one query, sayest thou, it may be judged it is to insnare; and in that thou answerest, thou answerest thyself for us in some things, that thou mightest have a further ground to lay a deeper snare; we do deny thee and thy spirit, and see thee to be only feeding in thy imaginations upon the report of things, without the life: And thy religion stands in disputes and controversies, and queries, and many words.

But our religion stands in the exercise of a pure conscience towards G.o.d, and towards man; whether we speak, or be silent: These are thy words.

Now in my query thou sayest I slander, in that I say, you Quakers allow of no other body of Christ; but the Church of Christ; yet dost thou not clear thyself at all, only thou wouldest say something to dazzle the eyes of the ignorant. But friend, if thou wouldest have made it appear that I slandered in saying, you own on other body but the church; you should have said yes, we do own this, that Christ hath a body that is now in glory, ascended from his disciples, according to the scripture (Acts 1:3 compared with verses 9-11). But thou dost only fling up a few words into the air, that thou mightest thereby puzzle thy simple reader. But I bless G.o.d, for my part I do see thee, that thou dost, like a beguiled man, seek by all means to beguile others. And whereas thou sayest, It is sufficient to salvation, to know Christ Jesus as head in us, and over us. To this I answer, whatsoever thy meaning is by these words, yet there are none shall be saved, but those who through the mighty operation of the Spirit of Christ, are enabled to apply what the man Christ Jesus the Son of Mary hath done and suffered, and is now a-doing for sinners and saint, (and for him) in the presence of his Father, now ascended in his body of flesh and bones, from his children which are alive in this world. I say, there are none shall be saved, but those that are thus established, or shall be so, as is clear from these (1Peter 1:18,19; 2:24; 3:18,22.; 4:1; 2Peter 1:17; Heb 7:24,25; 10:7,9; 13:12; 1Tim 2:5,6; Eph 1:7; Acts 13:37-39) with many other scriptures. And again, when you say, I answer you in something, if you mean, that the body in which he did bare the sins of his children, is his church (for that is partly my query,) then I do say, that your doctrine is desperate and devilish; and you do thereby undervalue the death, blood, resurrection an ascension, intercession and second coming again of that man for salvation; and therefore for a better satisfaction to all who may read your book, I entreat you to answer, "Did he bear our sins in that body which is his church, or did he bear our sins in that body that did hang on the cross on Mount Calvary?" Answer plainly I beseech you.

And now friend, pa.s.sing by the rest of thy brawlings, I shall come to thy several queries, and shall answer to them in the simplicity of my soul, not laying down any doubtful expressions, but in all plainness, and not as you do, for the better understanding of them by those that read them.

These be the Quaker's Queries, and my Answers to them.

Query 1. "Is any man justified in the sight of G.o.d, but he that followeth Christ; and is it not a work to follow Christ, yea or nay, and what is the sight of G.o.d."

Ans. He that followeth Christ; aright, must first believe in Christ; for how shall they follow him, in whom they believe not. Now then the scripture saith, He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life (John 3:16-18), so then we are justified by believing; and if so, then to follow Christ is rather a fruit of our believing, that justification itself. And whereas you ask, What is the sight of G.o.d? I answer, To be justified in the sight of G.o.d by Jesus Christ, is for G.o.d to look on such poor creatures as we are; as complete, without spot or wrinkle, in the obedience of the man Christ Jesus; who otherwise could not behold them in love, because of their iniquity (Hab 1:3).

Query 2. "Whether will that faith justify a man which hath not works, seeing the scripture, or the Apostle saith, faith without works is dead; and what is that which worketh faith; and where is it, within, or without?"

Ans. That faith that hath not works is dead, being alone. Yet it doth not follow, that all that have works, have faith. No; but contrary-wise, men may have works, yea, the works of the law of G.o.d too, and yet be under the curse (Gal 2:10-13); which they could not be if they had saving faith. So then, if faith without works is dead; and again, if men may have works, and yet no faith, no saving faith, I mean: Then it will be good to inquire, what it is to have a right faith, which doth bring forth right good works; and who have works without a right faith. And

(1.) A right saving faith, is, for a man to be enabled of G.o.d's holy Spirit, to lay hold on what the man Christ hath done in his won person, when he was in the world? as his birth, righteousness, death, blood, resurrection, ascension, and intercession; and to apply the virtue and merit thereof to himself, so as to see himself saved thereby (Rom 4:24,25). Being justified freely by his grace: How? Even through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. Whom G.o.d hath set forth to be a propitiation, or reconciler, through faith in his blood, &c. Again, "Be it known unto you,--that through this man is preached unto the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe: (Mark, all that believe; namely, in his blood which was shed on Mount Calvary) are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses" (Acts 13:38,39).

If the faith that applies these things be of the operation of G.o.d, it is very much accompanied with good works. "For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead, and that he died for all, that they which live (namely by the faith of this, that Christ died for all (Gal 2:29)), should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them" (2Cor 5:14,15). But

(2.) they that deny the merits of the birth, death, righteousness, blood, &c. of the man that was born of Mary, which he fulfilled in his own person, by himself (Heb 1:3). I say, they that do not venture their souls on these glorious, mysterious truths, but deny the belief of them to be sufficient of themselves to save from h.e.l.l, and all other things, and doth expect that salvation should be obtained by some thing that worketh in them, by working in them. It is impossible that these, though they may be, touching the righteousness of the law blameless, (as Paul was while he was a persecutor (Phil 3:6)), to be saved hereby. Wherefore? because they seek it not by the faith of Christ, but as it were by the works of the law (Rom 9:30,31).

And whereas you ask me, "What is that which worketh faith? And where is it, within or without?" I answer, That which worketh saving faith, is the holy spirit of G.o.d, which is renewed through the hearing of the word, preached by the apostles or ministers of Jesus Christ: Now the Spirit when it doth work, it entereth into the soul, and as I said before, doth enable the soul to believe, and lay hold on the merits of the son of Mary, Jesus Christ. For saith he, when he is come, he shall glorify me, for he shall take of mine, and shew it unto you (John 16:14).

Query 3. "Whether any be justified but he that is born of G.o.d? And whether doth he that is born of G.o.d commit sin? And is that within the creature, or without, that worketh the new birth?"

Ans. Justification may be taken two ways, (1.) either in the sight of G.o.d, or in the sight of the soul, or creature; my meaning is, that all that are or shall be saved, are justified in the sight and foreknowledge of G.o.d before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4). According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, &c. Having predestinated us to the us to the adoption of children by Jesus Christ unto himself. And again, "Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called; and whom he called, them he also justified; and whom he justified, them he also glorified" (Rom 8:30). Mark, all these thing are spoken as being already done; predestinated, called, justified, glorified. He doth not say, they shall be, but he hath done it, that is, in and according to the foreordination of G.o.d. (2.) Saints are said to by justified in their own sight or knowledge, as when G.o.d doth make manifest to the soul, what he had determined before should be done. "Be of good cheer, thy sins are forgiven thee." this is justification in the sight of the creature. And whereas you ask me, "do they that are born of G.o.d commit sin?" To this I answer,

They shall never commit the sin against the Holy Ghost, as is the meaning of that place (1John 5:16-18). There is a sin unto death, and there is a sin not unto death.--He that is born of G.o.d sinneth not, but keepeth himself; and that wicked one, (mark, that wicked one, the sin unto death,) toucheth him not: But they that are born of G.o.d notwithstanding, do daily sin, as it is evident (John 3:2). "In many things we offend all," saith he, I and you, all of us. And again, if we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and (instead of having no sin) the truth is not in us (1John 1:8). And who can say, my heart is clean? There is none righteous, no not one. And again, "There is not a must man upon earth that doeth good, and sinneth not" (Eccl 7:20). And I am confident, that while some would persuade others that they have no sin, their own consciences tell them they lie; and if it be not so in the rest, it is because they are hardened, and given to believe a lie.

As to the latter part of your query, I answer; The new birth is wrought through hearing of the word preached. And yet not by conscience, nor by the obedience to the law, or dictates of nature; but by the Spirit coming into the soul, and shewing its lost condition without the obedience of the Jesus of Mary, the Son of G.o.d; and his freeness and willingness to communicate, or give himself, and all his things unto it; which being done, the man is thereupon given up to G.o.d, and is become a new creature. I might spend much time in speaking to this, but I forbear, because of itself it is enough to fill up a small volume.

Query 4. "If Christ hath enlightened all men as he is G.o.d (as thou confessest) then hath he not enlightened all men as he is the Son of G.o.d? and is not the light of G.o.d sufficient in itself, to lead to G.o.d all that follow it, yea, or nay?"

Ans. (1.) Christ as he is G.o.d, doth enlighten every man that comes into the world, which light is conscience, or otherwise nature itself, which doth also convince of sin (John 7:9). Yet Christ as he is G.o.d; doth not give unto every man that spirit that doth lead to eternal life, for all men have it not (Jude 19). (2.) Christ as he was and is the son of G.o.d before the world was, being one in power, and being with his Father, hath enlightened every one that comes into the world, as aforesaid; but hath not so neither given them his spirit. "Some are sensual," &c. (3.) Christ as G.o.d-man, or as he came into the world to die for those whom before as G.o.d he knew and loved; I say, he doth not in this way neither enlighten every man with the saving light of life, or give unto them his holy Spirit. No, they that have been, and now are believers, do know and can remember, that all the time of their unregenerate state, they were without Christ (Eph 2:12). so that here is no way or room for your doctrine, take it how you will, Christ hath not given to every one his Spirit.

Second Part of the Query. Is not the light of G.o.d sufficient in itself, to lead to G.o.d all that follow it, yea, or nay?

Ans. (1.) As I said before, some are sensual, and have not the Spirit of Christ. (2.) No man can come to G.o.d as a Father by adoption, but by Jesus Christ; then it must needs be that all men, though they do follow that light which is given to every man, it is not able to lead to G.o.d as a Father in the Lord Jesus Christ. Ye this light that every man hath, will shew a man there is a G.o.d, and that this G.o.d is eternal; and also will clear out something of him, to them, by the things that are made. But now, if this light would lead to everlasting life, then might the devils also be delivered from everlasting d.a.m.nation; seeing they also do know G.o.d as a creator and revenger of sin, more perfectly than any natural man in the world, though not as a Father by adoption.

But you say, Doth it not lead to G.o.d all that follow it? Answ. (q.) Not to be saved, though to be condemned, through the weakness and unprofitableness of that light, or conscience, or the law, call it either, and I clear it thus: Because, if that light that every man receives, were able by our following it, to save us, then Christ needed not to gave suffered, seeing all men had that light. (2.) If that light that every man hath, which is conscience, were able to lead a man to justification by following it; that promise was made in vain by Jesus the Son of Mary, when he said, "I will send you; [Mark, I will send you] the Spirit, and he shall lead you into all truth:" for they had a light before. But it is evident, that that was not sufficient, because they must have another sent them by Jesus Christ, and that must be that Spirit.

Query 5. "Whether is not the same light in him that hates it, as it is in him that loves it (John 3). If there be a difference in the light, show it wherein; whether in the nature, or otherwise?"

Answ. (1.) That scripture quoted in John 3. "Light is come into the world," &c., is not meant of that light, or conscience, that every man hath; but the Man Christ Jesus is speaking there of himself, as G.o.d-man, come into the world, born of the Virgin, if thou compare verses 19-21 with 14-18 of the same chapter, it is clear, for they all do speak of the same thing; namely, the Son of Mary. And again, saith he, "I am the light of the world." Now the man Christ, though he was then in the world, and walked up and down in the same, yet he was not within any man in the world as man, (though he calls himself the light thereof) though he was in some; I say, in some, as G.o.d by his Spirit. Now the light, which was the Man Christ, was the very same, whether loved by some, or hated by others; but if you conclude every man hath Christ, or that light spoken of there (John 3), within him; that I deny, having proved the contrary. But (2.) Whether is there a difference in the light? Answ. There are more lights than one, there is a light that may be suspected to be darkness, where he saith, "If the light that is in thee be darkness," &c. Again, there is the light of the law (Prov 6:23). Again, conscience also will convince of sin. Now there is none of these that can save a sinner from the evil of his ways. Take the best of them, which is the righteous law of G.o.d, that cannot. For had there been a law given, which might have given life, then verily righteousness had come by the law: But if you conclude that righteousness, or everlasting life cometh by the law, you must conclude this again; that Christ did die in vain (Gal 2:21). So then these things being not able to save the soul, the next thing is, the Son of G.o.d, the Son of righteousness arising with healing under his wings; he is also a light, and indeed the saving light, for surpa.s.sing all the other mentioned.

Now though Christ doth not differ in himself, yet there is a difference in the power of these lights; the law and Christ, the one not being able to save, the other being able. And again, there is also a difference in the nature of them; the one being a condemning light, the other a saving light. It is Moses that accuseth you (saith Christ) even Moses in whom ye trust: But do not think, saith Christ, that I will accuse you to the Father: No, saith he, it is Moses, or the law given by him. But again, where Christ speaks for himself as a Saviour, he saith "G.o.d sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved" (John 3:17). So that I say, (a.) That light spoken of (John 3), which is the Man Christ, is not in every man that comes into the world. (b.) That the Man Christ, or the light spoken of there, is not against himself. (c.) There is the light of the law, conscience, and nature itself, which are in all men, which things are altogether insufficient to save a man from death, by his seeking of justification thereby. again, there is Jesus Christ, he is the Saviour, but not in all men. And again, neither is the Man Christ Jesus the condemning light.

Query 6. "Whether is it possible, that any can be saved, without Christ manifested within? If no, then whether is not the doctrine of salvation, which is only necessary, to preach Christ within: And is not the whole mystery of salvation, G.o.d manifest in the flesh?"

Answ. There can none be saved, but they that have the Spirit of Christ given unto them. But it is not the Spirit of Christ given to the elect, that doth work out the salvation of their souls within them, for that was obtained by the blood of the Man Christ Jesus on the cross (Heb 9:19 compared with Heb 13:12).