The Trial of Charles Random de Berenger, Sir Thomas Cochrane Part 121

_Mr. Brougham._ If your Lordship will permit us, we will examine Hopper now; he is extremely ill, I understand.

_Lord Ellenborough._ If you please.

_Mr. Thomas Hopper sworn._

_Examined by Mr. Brougham_.

_Q._ What are you?

_A._ An architect.

_Q._ Do you know Mr. Cochrane Johnstone's premises at Allsop's buildings?

_A._ I saw them two nights ago.

_Q._ You saw a piece of ground that he possesses there?

_A._ I did.

_Q._ Will you look at that plan, which is lying there, for the laying out of the ground? (_the witness looked at it._)

_A._ These plans I saw at the time.

_Lord Ellenborough._ That is two nights ago?

_A._ Yes, it is.

_Mr. Brougham._ Did you at the same time see the prospectus of the plan for laying out the place?

_A._ This, I believe, is a copy of it.

_Q._ What should you think is a reasonable compensation to the person who arranged that plan, and made that drawing, and the others connected with that plan, and the prospectus?

_A._ That it would be almost impossible for me to tell; that must be governed by the trouble that was attendant upon it, and of course of that I cannot be a judge.

_Lord Ellenborough._ It is a very well drawn plan?

_A._ Certainly it is.

_Mr. Brougham._ Are you aware, that a plan of that kind cannot be made out, without a survey of the ground?

_A._ Certainly.

_Q._ Are you aware, that in making a plan of that sort, there are various other plans previously made, before it comes into that state?

_A._ No doubt, there must be.

_Q._ Can you take upon you, from that, and from your understanding of the manner in which such plans are made, to say what would be a fair reasonable compensation for the trouble bestowed?

_A._ Mr. Cochrane Johnstone, whom I saw upon the premises, made a representation to me----

_Mr. Gurney._ We cannot hear that.

_Mr. Brougham._ From your own knowledge of the subject, and the ground, what should you take to be a reasonable compensation?

_A._ It is so governed by the trouble attending it, that I cannot say, with any precision; I should judge, from the calculation of the trouble that must attend it, that a compensation of from two to three hundred pounds, might not be excessive.

_---- M'Guire sworn._

_Examined by Mr. Park_.

_Q._ Are you the wife of the person who has just been here now?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Did you know Mr. De Berenger, when he lived at Chelsea?

_A._ No.

_Q._ Did you know Smith, his servant?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ Did your husband on any day, and if so, on what day, mention to you his having seen Mr. De Berenger, Smith's master?

_A._ Yes, he did on the 20th February, about ten o'clock at night.

_Q._ When he came home?

_A._ Yes.

_Q._ How do you happen to know it was the 20th of February, more than the 13th or the 6th?

_A._ It was the Sunday before Shrove-tuesday.

_Q._ What led you to recollect it so particularly?

_A._ It was my child's birth-day.

_Q._ Do you mean that Shrove-tuesday was your child's birth-day, or that Sunday?

_A._ The Sunday; the first child I ever had in my life.

_Q._ On that day he told you he had seen Mr. De Berenger at his master's yard?

_A._ Yes, he did.