The Pullman Boycott Part 12

Mr. Howard: "The men on all roads represented by the General Managers'

a.s.sociation were advised to go out on strike."

Mr. Kernan: "Was this order extended to roads not using Pullman cars or which were not represented in the General Managers' a.s.sociation?"

Mr. Howard: "No, sir."

Mr. Kernan: "Were there any such road?"

Mr. Howard: "Yes. General Manager Clark, of the Mobile & Ohio, sent us word that his road would drop the Pullman service if the men would continue at work. We advised the men to return to work under those conditions, but the men at St. Louis argued that such action would weaken their cause and refused to take our advice in the matter."

Mr. Worthingford: "How did you advise all other organizations to go on a sympathetic strike?"

Mr. Howard: "We did not advise nor even request other organizations to declare a strike. We invited the heads of all labor organizations to come here and aid us by their advice or in any way they saw fit to help us. I think Mr. Debs sent the invitation. When the representatives of the other labor organizations met here, we went before the body and explained the entire situation. They asked Mr. Debs what he wished them to do. He replied that he did not ask anything of them but left it to their best judgment and conscience to take such measures as would help bring the trouble to an end. Mr. Debs read a communication which he had prepared to present to the general managers, and asked the representatives at the conference if they would act as a board of arbitration or a.s.sume the role of peace-makers. President Gompers of the American Federation of Labor, seemed afraid that such action would involve the other organizations in some way and hesitated to accept our request to take the communication to the general managers. We then concluded to ask Mayor Hopkins to present our communication. The mayor willingly granted our request."

Mr. Kernan: "Was any written record kept of that conference of the heads of the labor organizations which was held at the Briggs House?"

Mr. Howard: "I do not know."

Commissioner Kernan: "What records have you of the proceedings of your convention as to who invited the heads of other labor organizations to meet here in conference, and what they were expected to do?"

Mr. Howard: "I think it was decided at the convention of the American Railway Union, which met here June 12, to extend such an invitation. I know it was talked over then."

Commissioner Wright: "Then the American Railway Union did not advise a sympathetic strike of all organizations."

Mr. Howard: "No, sir. Mr. Debs left that question to the judgment and conscience of the men themselves."

Commissioner Wright: "Was the action of the convention of June 12 a strike?"

Mr. Howard: "Well, it was called a strike."

Commissioner Worthington: "Was the communication you referred to presented to the general managers?"

Mr. Howard: "Yes, sir, and returned without an answer further than a statement that the General Managers' a.s.sociation had no business to transact with the American Railway Union or its representatives."

Mr. Kernan: "It is charged that your organization, like others, encouraged its members to persistently interfere with and prevent unorganized labor from taking positions given up by their striking members. Is that charge true?"

Mr. Howard: "It cannot be shown in one instance that anything of the kind has been done."

Commissioner Kernan: "You won't go so far as to say that no interference of the sort alluded to has ever been engaged in?"

Mr. Howard: "Certainly not. I mean that such interference was not authorized or countenanced by the union."

Commissioner Kernan: "Did you take any steps to prevent such interference?"

Mr. Howard: "We have taken the ground that when we go out on strike not to interfere with any of the new men the companies may employ."

Commissioner Kernan: "You do countenance advice to such men not to take the places of strikers?"

Mr. Howard: "Oh, yes. We claim the right to ask new men not to take our places."

Mr. Kernan: "Is it not a fact that such interviews usually result in violence?"

Mr. Howard: "No. I think the rule is to the contrary. We go no further than to request the men to quit work and to commit no violence."

Commissioner Kernan: "Is there any punishment for violation of that rule?"

Mr. Howard: "No. No organization has any power to punish a member for violation of such rule except by expulsion. We leave the punishment of such cases to the civil authorities."

Commissioner Kernan: "Don't you think some steps should be taken by labor unions to punish their members who violate the rules in that respect?"

Mr. Howard: "Yes, sir, I do, and we started out to do so here during the strike but the trouble a.s.sumed such vast proportions that it was impossible to do anything in that direction. In the case of the Great Northern strike we appointed committees to guard the company's property, and the men were instructed to shoot anyone found in the act of destroying same."

Commissioner Kernan: "What, as a rule has been your experience in strikes where violence was restored to?"

Mr. Howard: "The men have always been defeated."

Commissioner Kernan: "Then a resort to violence is rather detrimental to the cause of the strikers?"

Mr. Howard: "Decidedly so. We want public opinion with us in a strike."

Commissioner Kernan: "Do you know of any organization that disciplines its members for resorting to violence?"

Mr. Howard: "None, excepting the American Railway Union. Our argument is that the only weapons labor has to fight its battles with are the strike and the boycott. There is some talk about the ballot but some questions cannot be settled by the ballot. Only the array of labor in one solid phalanx will give it the power that will make strikes unnecessary."

Commissioner Kernan: "Does not history show that on account of jealousies in your own ranks a complete organization of labor cannot be effected?"

Mr. Howard: "Yes. That is history up to the present, but the workingman is doing more thinking to-day than ever before."

Commissioner Kernan: "You regard such a strike as would be possible under the conditions you outline as a desirable thing for organized labor?"

Mr. Howard: "No, sir. If employers would be a little more considerate of their men there would soon be no labor organizations in existence."

Commissioner Kernan: "You do not say that all grievances are just, do you?"

Mr. Howard: "No. Many of them are frivolous."

Commissioner Kernan: "It is charged that there is a minority in all labor organizations who are practically enslaved by the will of the majority and that a man for that reason loses his independence when he joins a union?"

Mr. Howard: "Well, I think the reverse is the rule. The hot heads and agitators in the labor movement are in the minority; the quiet, thinking men are always in the majority. It often happens that the man who is really most anxious to strike a.s.sumes an air of indifference or positive objection to such a move. He is merely waiting for a good excuse to stop and let the blame lie with some one else. He wants some one to order him to quit work so he can say to the superintendent that he is afraid to remain at work for fear of personal violence."

Commissioner Kernan: "Was any other motive behind the strike other than to force a settlement with Mr. Pullman?"

Mr. Howard: "No."

Commissioner Kernan; "Was there any object in breaking the older unions so that the American Railway Union might profit thereby?"

Mr. Howard: "While the increase in membership in the American Railway Union meant a decrease in the strength of the older organizations it was not the object of the strike to break down the older unions."

In answer to a question by Commissioner Kernan as to what he would suggest to prevent railroad strikes in the future, Mr. Howard replied that the government ownership and control of railroads was the only practical solution of the question. He argued that about one third of the railroads of the country are practically under control of the government, and thought the balance could easily be taken. He claimed the Santa Fe was from two to four months behind in payment of wages; that it would seem only fair that the government should see that the men were paid. The government had gone to the extent of forcing the employes of that and other roads to work whether they wished to or not and he thought the other step might as well be taken at once.