The Anti-Slavery Examiner Volume III Part 90

I do not wish to say any thing harsh, to the hearing of gentlemen who entertain different sentiments from me, or different sentiments from those I represent; but if there is any one point in which it is clearly the policy of this nation, so far as we const.i.tutionally can, to vary the practice obtaining under some of the State governments, it is this; but it is certain a majority of the States are opposed to this practice, therefore, upon principle, we ought to discountenance it as far as is in our power.

If I was not afraid of being told that the representatives of the several States, are the best able to judge of what is proper and conducive to their particular prosperity, I should venture to say that it is as much the interest of Georgia and South Carolina, as of any in the Union. Every addition they receive to their number of slaves, tends to weaken them and renders them less capable of self defence. In case of hostilities with foreign nations, they will be the means of inviting attack instead of repelling invasion. It is a necessary duty of the general government to protect every part of the empire against danger, as well internal as external; every thing therefore which tends to increase this danger, though it may be a local affair, yet if it involves national expense or safety, becomes of concern to every part of the Union, and is a proper subject for the consideration of those charged with the general administration of the government. I hope, in making these observations, I shall not be understood to mean that a proper attention ought not to be paid to the local opinions and circ.u.mstances of any part of the United States, or that the particular representatives are not best able to judge of the sense of their immediate const.i.tuents.

If we examine the proposal measure by the agreement there is between it, and the existing State laws, it will show us that it is patronized by a very respectable part of the Union. I am informed that South Carolina has prohibited the importation of slaves for several years yet to come; we have the satisfaction then of reflecting that we do nothing more than their own laws do at this moment. This is not the case with one State. I am sorry that her situation is such as to seem to require a population of this nature, but it is impossible in the nature of things, to consult the national good without doing what we do not wish to do, to some particular part. Perhaps gentlemen contend against the introduction of the clause, on too slight grounds. If it does not conform with the t.i.tle of the bill, alter the latter; if it does not conform to the precise terms of the const.i.tution, amend it.

But if it will tend to delay the whole bill, that perhaps will be the best reason for making it the object of a separate one. If this is the sense of the committee I shall submit.

Mr. Gerry (of Ma.s.s.) thought all duties ought to be laid as equal as possible. He had endeavored to enforce this principle yesterday, but without the success he wished for, he was bound by the principles of justice therefore to vote for the proposition; but if the committee were desirous of considering the subject fully by itself, he had no objection, but he thought when gentlemen laid down a principle, they ought to support it generally.

Mr. Burke (of S.C.) said, gentlemen were contending for nothing; that the value of a slave averaged about 80, and the duty on that sum at five per cent, would be ten dollars, as congress could go no farther than that sum, he conceived it made not difference whether they were enumerated or left in the common ma.s.s.

Mr. Madison, (of Va.) If we contend for nothing, the gentlemen who are opposed to us do not contend for a great deal; but the question is, whether the five percent ad valorem, on all articles imported, will have any operation at all upon the introduction of slaves, unless we make a particular enumeration on this account; the collector may mistake, for he would not presume to apply the term goods, wares, and merchandise to any person whatsoever. But if that general definition of goods, wares, and merchandise are supposed to include African Slaves, why may we not particularly enumerate them, and lay the duty pointed out by the Const.i.tution, which, as gentlemen tell us, is no more than five per cent upon their value; this will not increase the burden upon any, but it will be that manifestation of our sense, expected by our const.i.tuents, and demanded by justice and humanity.

Mr. Bland (of Va.) had no doubt of the propriety or good policy of this measure. He had made up his mind upon it, he wished slaves had never been introduced into America; but if it was impossible at this time to cure the evil, he was very willing to join in any measures that would prevent its extending farther. He had some doubts whether the prohibitory laws of the States were not in part repealed. Those who had endeavored to discountenance this trade, by laying a duty on the importation, were prevented by the Const.i.tution from continuing such regulation, which declares, that no State shall lay any impost or duties on imports. If this was the case, and he suspected pretty strongly that it was, the necessity of adopting the proposition of his colleague was not apparent.

Mr. Sherman (of Ct.) said, the Const.i.tution does not consider these persons as a species of property; it speaks of them as persons, and says, that a tax or duty may be imposed on the importation of them into any State which shall permit the same, but they have no power to prohibit such importation for twenty years. But Congress have power to declare upon what terms persons coming into the United States shall be ent.i.tled to citizenship; the rule of naturalization must however be uniform. He was convinced there were others ought to be regulated in this particular, the importation of whom was of an evil tendency, he meant convicts particularly. He thought that some regulation respecting them was also proper; but it being a different subject, it ought to be taken up in a different manner.

Mr. Madison (of Va.) was led to believe, from the observation that had fell from the gentlemen, that it would be best to make this the subject of a distinct bill: he therefore wished his colleague would withdraw his motion, and move in the house for leave to bring in a bill on the same principles.

Mr. Parker (of Va.) consented to withdraw his motion, under a conviction that the house was fully satisfied of its propriety. He knew very well that these persons were neither goods, nor wares, but they were treated as articles of merchandise. Although he wished to get rid of this part of his property, yet he should not consent to deprive other people of theirs by any act of his without their consent.

The committee rose, reported progress, and the house adjourned.

FEBRUARY 11th, 1790.

Mr. Lawrance (of New York,) presented an address from the society of Friends, in the City of New York; in which they set forth their desire of co-operating with their Southern brethren.

Mr. Hartley (of Penn.) then moved to refer the address of the annual a.s.sembly of Friends, held at Philadelphia, to a committee; he thought it a mark of respect due so numerous and respectable a part of the community.

Mr. White (of Va.) seconded the motion.

Mr. Smith, (of S.C.) However respectable the pet.i.tioners may be, I hope gentlemen will consider that others equally respectable are opposed to the object which is aimed at, and are ent.i.tled to an opportunity of being heard before the question is determined. I flatter myself gentlemen will not press the point of commitment to-day, it being contrary to our usual mode of procedure.

Mr. Fitzsimons, (of Penn.) If we were now about to determine the final question, the observation of the gentleman from South Carolina would apply; but, sir, the present question does not touch upon the merits of the case; it is merely to refer the memorial to a committee, to consider what is proper to be done; gentlemen, therefore, who do not mean to oppose the commitment to-morrow, may as well agree to it to-day, because it will tend to save the time of the house.

Mr. Jackson (of Geo.) wished to know why the second reading was to be contended for to-day, when it was diverting the attention of the members from the great object that was before the committee of the whole? Is it because the feelings of the Friends will be hurt, to have their affair conducted in the usual course of business? Gentlemen who advocate the second reading to-day, should respect the feelings of the members who represent that part of the Union which is princ.i.p.ally to be affected by the measure. I believe, sir, that the latter cla.s.s consists of as useful and as good citizens as the pet.i.tioners, men equally friends to the revolution, and equally susceptible of the refined sensations of humanity and benevolence. Why then should such particular attention be paid to them, for bringing forward a business of questionable policy? If Congress are disposed to interfere in the importation of slaves, they can take the subject up without advisers, because the Const.i.tution expressly mentions all the power they can exercise on the subject.

Mr. Sherman (of Conn.) suggested the idea of referring it to a committee, to consist of a member from each State, because several States had already made some regulations on this subject. The sooner the subject was taken up he thought it would be the better.

Mr. Parker, (of Va.) I hope, Mr. Speaker, the pet.i.tion of these respectable people, will be attended to with all the readiness the importance of its object demands: and I cannot help expressing the pleasure I feel in finding so considerable a part of the community attending to matters of such momentous concern to the future prosperity and happiness of the people of America. I think it my duty, as a citizen of the Union, to espouse their cause; and it is inc.u.mbent upon every member of this house to sift the subject well, and ascertain what can be done to restrain a practice so nefarious. The Const.i.tution has authorized as to levy a tax upon the importation of such persons as the States shall authorize to be admitted. I would willingly go to that extent; and if any thing further can be devised to discountenance the trade, consistent with the terms of the Const.i.tution, I shall cheerfully give it my a.s.sent and support.

Mr. Madison, (of Va.) The gentleman from Pennsylvania, (Mr.

Fitzsimons) has put this question on its proper ground. If gentlemen do not mean to oppose the commitment to-morrow, they may as well acquiesce in it to-day; and I apprehend gentlemen need not be alarmed at any measure it is likely Congress should take; because they will recollect, that the Const.i.tution secures to the individual States the right of admitting, if they think proper, the importation of slaves into their own territory, for eighteen years yet unexpired; subject, however, to a tax, if Congress are disposed to impose it, of not more than ten dollars on each person.

The pet.i.tion, if I mistake not, speaks of artifices used by self-interested persons to carry on this trade; and the pet.i.tion from New York states a case, that may require the consideration of Congress. If anything is within the Federal authority to restrain such violation of the rights of nations, and of mankind, as is supposed to be practised in some parts of the United States it will certainly tend to the interest and honor of the community to attempt a remedy, and is a proper subject for our discussion. It may be, that foreigners take the advantage of the liberty afforded them by the American trade, to employ our shipping in the slave trade between Africa and the West Indies, when they are restrained from employing their own by restrictive laws of their nation. If this is the case, is there any person of humanity that would not wish to prevent them? Another consideration why we should commit the pet.i.tion is, that we may give no ground of alarm by a serious opposition, as if we were about to take measures that were unconst.i.tutional.

Mr. Stone (of Md.) feared that if Congress took any measures, indicative of an intention to interfere with the kind of property alluded to, it would sink it in value very considerably, and might be injurious to a great number of the citizens, particularly in the Southern States.

He thought the subject was of general concern, and that the pet.i.tioners had no more right to interfere with it than any other members of the community. It was an unfortunate circ.u.mstance, that it was the property of sects to imagine they understood the rights of human nature letter than all the world beside; and that they would, in consequence, be meddling with concerns in which they had nothing to do.

As the pet.i.tion relates to a subject of a general nature, it ought to lie on the table, as information; he would never consent to refer pet.i.tions, unless the pet.i.tioners were exclusively interested. Suppose there was a pet.i.tion to come before us from a society, praying us to be honest in our transactions, or that we should administer the Const.i.tution according to its intention--what would you do with a pet.i.tion of this kind? Certainly it would remain on your table. He would, nevertheless, not have it supposed, that the people had not a right to advise and give their opinion upon public measures; but he would not be influenced by that advice or opinion, to take up a subject sooner than the convenience of other business would admit.

Unless he changed his sentiments, he would oppose the commitment.

Mr. Burke (of S.C.) thought gentlemen were paying attention to what did not deserve it. The men in the gallery had come here to meddle in a business with which they have nothing to do; they were volunteering it in the cause of others, who neither expected nor desired it. He had a respect for the body of Quakers, but, nevertheless, he did not believe they had more virtue, or religion, than other people, nor perhaps so much, if they were examined to the bottom, notwithstanding their outward pretences. If their pet.i.tion is to be noticed, Congress ought to wait till counter applications were made, and then they might have the subject more fairly before them. The rights of the Southern States ought not to be threatened, and their property endangered, to please people who were to be unaffected by the consequences.

Mr. Hartley (of Penn.) thought the memorialists did not deserve to be aspersed for their conduct, if influenced by motives of benignity, they solicited the Legislature of the Union to repel, as far as in their power, the increase of a licentious traffic. Nor do they merit censure, because their behavior has the appearance of more morality than other people's. But it is not for Congress to refuse to hear the applications of their fellow-citizens, while those applications contain nothing unconst.i.tutional or offensive. What is the object of the address before us? It is intended to bring before this House a subject of great importance to the cause of humanity; there are certain facts to be enquired into, and the memorialists are ready to give all the information in their power; they are waiting, at a great distance from their homes, and wish to return; if, then, it will be proper to commit the pet.i.tion to-morrow, it will be equally proper to-day, for it is conformable to our practice, beside, it will tend to their conveniency.

Mr. Lawrance, (of N.Y.) The Gentleman from South Carolina says, the pet.i.tioners are of a society not known in the laws or Const.i.tution.

Sir, in all our acts, as well as in the Const.i.tution, we have noticed this Society; or why is it that we admit them to affirm, in cases where others are called upon to swear? If we pay this attention to them, in one instance, what good reason is there for condemning them in another? I think the gentleman from Maryland (Mr. Stone,) carries his apprehensions too far, when he fears that negro-property will fall in value, by the suppression of the slave-trade: not that I suppose it immediately in the power of Congress to abolish a traffic which is a disgrace to human nature; but it appears to me, that, if the importation was crushed, the value of a slave would be increased instead of diminished; however, considerations of this kind have nothing to do with the present question; gentlemen may acquiesce in the commitment of the memorial, without pledging themselves to support its object.

Mr. Jackson, (of Ga.) I differ much in opinion with the gentleman last up. I apprehend if, through the interference of the general government, the slave-trade was abolished, it would evince to the people a disposition toward a total emanc.i.p.ation, and they would hold their property in jeopardy. Any extraordinary attention of Congress to this pet.i.tion may have, in some degree, a similar effect. I would beg to ask those, then, who are so desirous of freeing the negroes, if they have funds sufficient to pay for them? If they have, they may come forward on that business with some propriety; but, if they have not, they should keep themselves quiet, and not interfere with a business in which they are not interested. They may as well come forward, and solicit Congress to interdict the West-India trade, because it is injurious to the morals of mankind; from thence we import rum, which has a debasing influence upon the consumer. But, sir, is the whole morality of the United States confined to the Quakers? Are they the only people whose feelings are to be consulted on this occasion? Is it to them we owe our present happiness? Was it they who formed the Const.i.tution? Did they, by their arms, or contributions, establish our independence? I believe they were generally opposed to that measure. Why, then, on their application, shall we injure men, who, at the risk of their lives and fortunes, secured to the community their liberty and property? If Congress pay any uncommon degree of attention to their pet.i.tion, it will furnish just ground of alarm to the Southern States. But, why do these men set themselves up, in such a particular manner, against slavery? Do they understand the rights of mankind, and the disposition of Providence better than others? If they were to consult that Book which claims our regard, they will find that slavery is not only allowed, but commended. Their Saviour, who possessed more benevolence and commiseration than they pretend to, has allowed of it. And if they fully examine the subject, they will find that slavery has been no novel doctrine since the days of Cain. But be these things as they may, I hope the house will order the pet.i.tion to lie on the table, in order to prevent alarming our Southern brethren.

Mr. Sedgwick, (of Ma.s.s.) If it was a serious question, whether the Memorial should be committed or not, I would not urge it at this time; but that cannot be a question for a moment, if we consider our relative situation with the people. A number of men,--who are certainly very respectable, and of whom, as a society, it may be said with truth, that they conform their moral conduct to their religious tenets, as much as any people in the whole community,--come forward and tell you, that you may effect two objects by the exercise of a Const.i.tutional authority which will give great satisfaction; on the one hand you may acquire revenue, and on the other, restrain a practice productive of great evil. Now, setting aside the religious motives which influenced their application, have they not a right, as citizens, to give their opinion of public measures? For my part I do not apprehend that any State, or any considerable number of individuals in any State, will be seriously alarmed at the commitment of the pet.i.tion, from a fear that Congress intend to exercise an unconst.i.tutional authority, in order to violate their rights; I believe there is not a wish of the kind entertained by any member of this body. How can gentlemen hesitate then to pay that respect to a memorial which it is ent.i.tled to, according to the ordinary mode of procedure in business? Why shall we defer doing that till to-morrow, which we can do to-day? for the result, I apprehend, will be the same in either case.

Mr. Smith, (of S.C.) The question, I apprehend, is, whether we will take the pet.i.tion up for a second reading, and not whether it shall be committed? Now, I oppose this, because it is contrary to our usual practice, and does not allow gentlemen time to consider of the merits of the prayer; perhaps some gentlemen may think it improper to commit it to so large a committee as has been mentioned; a variety of causes may be supposed to show that such a hasty decision is improper; perhaps the prayer of it is improper. If I understood it right, on its first reading, though, to be sure, I did not comprehend perfectly all that the pet.i.tion contained, it prays that we should take measures for the abolition of the slave trade; this is desiring an unconst.i.tutional act, because the const.i.tution secures that trade to the States, independent of congressional restrictions, for the term of twenty-one years. If, therefore, it prays for a violation of const.i.tutional rights, it ought to be rejected, as an attempt upon the virtue and patriotism of the house.

Mr. Boudinot, (of N.J.) It has been said that the Quakers have no right to interfere in this business; I am surprised to hear this doctrine advanced, after it has been so lately contended, and settled, that the people have a right to a.s.semble and pet.i.tion for redress of grievances; it is not because the pet.i.tion comes from the society of Quakers that I am in favor of the commitment, but because it comes from citizens of the United States, who are as equally concerned in the welfare and happiness of their country as others. There certainly is no foundation for the apprehensions which seem to prevail in gentlemen's minds. If the pet.i.tioners were so uninformed as to suppose that congress could be guilty of a violation of the const.i.tution, yet, I trust we know our duty better than to be led astray by an application from any man, or set of men whatever. I do not consider the merits of the main question to be before us; it will be time enough to give our opinions upon that, when the committee have reported. If it is in our power, by recommendation, or any other way, to put a stop to the slave-trade in America, I do not doubt of its policy; but how far the const.i.tution will authorize us to attempt to depress it, will be a question well worthy of our consideration.

Mr. Sherman (of Conn.) observed, that the pet.i.tioners from New York, stated that they had applied to the legislature of that State, to prohibit certain practices which they conceived to be improper, and which tended to injure the well-being of the community; that the legislature had considered the application, but had applied no remedy, because they supposed that power was exclusively vested in the general government, under the const.i.tution of the United States; it would, therefore, be proper to commit that pet.i.tion, in order to ascertain what were the powers of the general government, in the case doubted by the legislature of New York.

Mr. Gerry (of Ma.s.s.) thought gentlemen were out of order in entering upon the merits of the main question at this time, when they were considering the expediency of committing the pet.i.tion; he should, therefore, now follow them further in that track than barely to observe, that it was the right of the citizens to apply for redress, in every case they conceived themselves aggrieved in; and it was the duty of congress to afford redress as far as in their power. That their Southern brethren had been betrayed into the slave-trade by the first settlers, was to be lamented; they were not to be reflected on for not viewing this subject in a different light, the prejudice of education is eradicated with difficulty; but he thought nothing would excuse the general government for not exerting itself to prevent, as far as they const.i.tutionally could, the evils resulting from such enormities as were alluded to by the pet.i.tioners; and the same considerations induced him highly to commend the part the society of Friends had taken; it was the cause of humanity they had interested themselves in, and he wished, with them, to see measures pursued by every nation, to wipe off the indelible stain which the slave-trade had brought upon all who were concerned in it.

Mr. Madison (of Va.) thought the question before the committee was no otherwise important than as gentlemen made it so by their serious opposition. Did they permit the commitment of the Memorial, as a matter of course, no notice would be taken of it out of doors; it could never be blown up into a decision of the question respecting the discouragement of the African slave-trade, nor alarm the owners with an apprehension that the general government were about to abolish slavery in all the States; such things are not contemplated by any gentleman; but, to appearance, they decide the question more against themselves than would be the case if it was determined on its real merits, because gentlemen may be disposed to vote for the commitment of a pet.i.tion, without any intention of supporting the prayer of it.

Mr. White (of Va.) would not have seconded the motion, if he had thought it would have brought on a lengthy debate. He conceived that a business of this kind ought to be decided without much discussion; it had constantly been the practice of the house, and he did not suppose there was any reason for a deviation.

Mr. Page (of Va.) said, if the memorial had been presented by any individual, instead of the respectable body it was, he should have voted in favor of a commitment, because it was the duty of the legislature to attend to subjects brought before them by their const.i.tuents; if, upon inquiry, it was discovered to be improper to comply with the prayer of the pet.i.tioners, he would say so, and they would be satisfied.

Mr. Stone (of Md.) thought the business ought to be left to take its usual course; by the rules of the house, it was expressly declared, that pet.i.tions, memorials, and other papers, addressed to the house, should not be debated or decided on the day they were first read.

Mr. Baldwin (of Ga.) felt at a loss to account why precipitation was used on this occasion, contrary to the customary usage of the house; he had not heard a single reason advanced in favor of it. To be sure it was said the pet.i.tioners are a respectable body of men--he did not deny it--but, certainly, gentlemen did not suppose they were paying respect to them, or to the house, when they urged such a hasty procedure; anyhow it was contrary to his idea of respect, and the idea the house had always expressed, when they had important subjects under consideration; and, therefore, he should be against the motion. He was afraid that there was really a little volunteering in this business, as it had been termed by the gentleman from Georgia.

Mr. Huntington (of Conn.) considered the pet.i.tioners as much disinterested as any person in the United States; he was persuaded they had an aversion to slavery; yet they were not singular in this, others had the same; and he hoped when congress took up the subject, they would go as far as possible to prohibit the evil complained of.

But he thought that would better be done by considering it in the light of revenue. When the committee of the whole, on the finance business, came to the ways and means, it might properly be taken into consideration, without giving any ground for alarm.

Mr. Tucker, (of S.C.) I have no doubt on my mind respecting what ought to be done on this occasion; so far from committing the memorial, we ought to dismiss it without further notice. What is the purport of the memorial? It is plainly this; to reprobate a particular kind of commerce, in a moral view, and to request the interposition of congress to effect its abrogation. But congress have no authority, under the const.i.tution, to do more than lay a duty of ten dollars upon each person imported; and this is a political consideration, not arising from either religion or morality, and is the only principle upon which we can proceed to take it up. But what effect do these men suppose will arise from their exertions? Will a duty of ten dollars diminish the importation? Will the treatment be better than usual? I apprehend it will not, nay, it may be worse. Because an interference with the subject may excite a great degree of restlessness in the minds of those it is intended to serve, and that may be a cause for the masters to use more rigor towards them, than they would otherwise exert; so that these men seem to overshoot their object. But if they will endeavor to procure the abolition of the slave-trade, let them prefer their pet.i.tions to the State legislatures, who alone have the power of forbidding the importation; I believe their applications there would be improper; but if they are any where proper, it is there. I look upon the address then to be ill-judged, however good the intention of the framers.

Mr. Smith (of S.C.) claimed it as a right, that the pet.i.tion should lay over till to-morrow.

Mr. Boudinor (of N.J.) said it was not unusual to commit pet.i.tions on the day they were presented; and the rules of the house admitted the practice, by the qualification which followed the positive order, that pet.i.tions should not be decided on the day they were first read, "unless where the house shall direct otherwise."

Mr. Smith (of S.C.) declared his intention of calling the yeas and nays, if gentlemen persisted in pressing the question.

Mr. Clymer (of Penn.) hoped the motion would be withdrawn for the present, and the business taken up in course to-morrow; because, though he respected the memorialists, he also respected order and the situation of the members.

Mr. Fitzsimons (of Penn.) did not recollect whether he moved or seconded the motion, but if he had, he should not withdraw it on account of the threat of calling the yeas and nays.

Mr. Baldwin (of Ga.) hoped the business would be conducted with temper and moderation, and that gentlemen would concede and pa.s.s the subject over a day at least.