Sick In The Head: Conversations About Life And Comedy Part 19

Ben: And then you got to-you sort of rewrote the script- Judd: I went and rewrote the drafts.

Jim: You cut your teeth!

Judd: Lou Holtz is the credited writer on this film; I did a pa.s.s on it. I think if I said more than that I'd get kicked out of the Writers Guild. But this was postAce Ventura: When Nature Calls. It was a white-hot Jim Carrey madness at that moment.

Jim: Yeah. And I was just about to destroy the industry as we know it.

Judd: You were paid twenty million dollars. What'd you do with all that money?

Jim: I'm still living off that twenty million dollars.

Ben: And they made a big deal of it-the studio announced it, I remember. They were like very excited about it.

Jim: Yeah, they stuck their heads right out there. Into the guillotine.

Ben: It put us out there, right from the beginning.

Jim: It really did expose us.

Ben: "Let's get our money's worth!"

Jim: "Oh, yeah. We'll be real happy for them. We're rootin' for 'em!"

Judd: I remember they said forty-million-dollar budget, twenty million to Jim, and then if we ever asked for more than forty million dollars they'd get very angry.

Jim: (Watching movie) Hold on, I'm caught up in this. I'm so good at this.

Judd: At this moment in time, when I was doing my work, I was very, very lonely. I was lonely, and so the idea of the desperation of this was not a big leap for how I was feeling at the time.

Ben: I was coming off a big breakup, too.

Jim: We're all disenfranchised. It's all about abandonment, man. Every role I do is about abandonment. How about you guys?

Ben: My life is about abandonment.

Judd: I remember every aspect of this-we could not have laughed or enjoyed the ideas of this or the shooting more. But then, when you watch it years later, you do think, That was completely crazy.

Ben: I think a lot of the issues with the movie are about the context of the movie being made as this sort of mainstream, summer, hopefully comedic blockbuster type of movie. But really we were making this dark, pseudo-s.e.xual tale of two men who become obsessed with each other.

Jim: With h.o.m.os.e.xual overtones!

Judd: This is the first bromance.

Jim: Yeah. But I think it was important! I still think so. This movie is what's wrong with everything.

Ben: I don't think the studio ever-they were sort of afraid to question what was going on.

Jim: Well, I don't think you should. I think it's a great movie, man!

Ben: But if it had come out on Halloween or something, or if they hadn't put it out there as- Jim: I remember they took all the psychodrama craziness out of the first trailer and I got worried right then. I went, Uh-oh. They're trying to mask this thing.

Ben: The trailer was a little ridiculous, in terms of the oom-pah-pah music.

Judd: We wanted the trailer to be a little more, like, Cape Fear.

Jim: I wanted me attempting to put my drill into Matthew Broderick's head or something like that. I wanted it to just be out there.

Ben: Judd, you said that the experience was fun, and it was so much fun-up until the day it came out.

Judd: I remember at the premiere, literally at the premiere, someone handed me two faxes-the Time review and the Newsweek review-and they were both bad. And I was like, What's happening?

Jim: I knew. I knew we were in trouble, financially. The wolves were at the door at that point. But I also knew that we were doing something interesting that, in retrospect, we were gonna look back on and- Ben: I remember that you never ever had any question about where you wanted it to go. I blame you.

Jim: I would take it further. I would.

Judd: At the time, it felt like you were throwing down the gauntlet, that you were announcing that you wanted to do things other than big, broad comedy.

Jim: It was a complete rebellion.

Judd: It kind of set up people to know that The Truman Show and Eternal Sunshine were coming. This one was the first time they were like, "Oh my G.o.d, this is not what his other movies were like."

Jim: How they speak about it still is so strange to me. It's like, "And then he gave the audience something they weren't ready for...." They talk about it as if it was some murderously dark thing and I think it was just funny, and the need of the character is hilarious, but our sensibility, you and me-you love to go to that place.

Ben: Were you thinking of that at all when we were doing it, though? In terms of how audiences would react to it?

Jim: No, I always follow what I think is funny.

Ben: Your character is funny to me because he's just so needy, and he's so-he just wants a friend. I mean, he has a very clear motivation. He's pure.

Judd: And it took an insane level of commitment. Jim, you had limitless energy: It was never like, "I'm tired. Can I go home?" It was always like, "Grr, how many more? Let's go, let's go!" (Growling sound) Ben: I think we were sort of all at that place in our lives where we sort of had nothing else going on except our work.

Jim: We had nowhere else to go.

Ben: I just wanted to be there all the time.

Judd: I remember when-I used to have panic attacks around this time from smoking too much weed and working too hard. And I'd have to go into these meetings with the head of Sony, Mark Canton- Jim: Everything was on the line for Mark at that point.

Judd: And I'd realize that this meeting is going to take two hours and I'd have a panic attack. Or we'd be at page five of a hundred and five and I'd know that I was going to have a panic attack for a hundred and fifteen pages but not look like I was having a panic attack.

Jim: Wow. I didn't know you were going through so much, Judd.

Judd: Here's something: Jim, you make sweet love to my wife, Leslie Mann, in the movie I Love You Phillip Morris.

Jim: We go at it! We go at it like bandits. Like bandits! My G.o.d, my forehead was bleeding from the headboard.

Ben: Now, what was that like?

Jim: It was insane. Unbelievable. I dislocated her hip.

Judd: I don't mind when it's friends! Between friends, it's okay. The only person that bothered me was Owen Wilson.

Jim: Well, of course. Because you figure, like, that could be something real.

Judd: I just want to be apologized to before you do it-like, "Sorry, Judd, it's the job." But Owen was just like, "Hi, Judd." Then just did it. Anyway, Jim, was this the weirdest character you've played? Or Ace Ventura? Like, what's the top three weirdest Jim Carrey characters?

Jim: I don't know. I don't think they've happened yet. But yeah, Ace was definitely an out-there character. And suddenly I got this big paycheck and stuff, and I didn't know what to do with myself. My first terror went through me-Oh my G.o.d, you're getting paid a lot of money, you're gonna get safe-and so my reaction is always to do something outrageous.

Ben: Well, it worked well for you until this movie.

Jim: Till I started chasing penguins around and kissing up to the public. No, this movie rocks! I don't care what anybody says. I don't care what the ma.s.ses say. This movie is dear to me.

Judd: How do you feel about the movies you've made since then, about your canon?

Jim: It won't be complete, Judd, until you do your best work with me. Seriously, we have to reteam. It has to happen. I mean, honestly. I think the world is ready for this.

Ben: They're clamouring for Cable Guy 2.

Judd: That would be awesome.

Ben: This time we'll have a hundred-million-dollar budget.

Jim: And I should get paid fifty of the hundred million! That would be amazing.

Judd: For all the film students out there-are they learning anything about film right now, listening to this?

Ben: I never know if these things are supposed to be entertaining or informative.

Jim: I don't know what they're supposed to be.

Judd: This is your first commentary.

Jim: I feel so virginal right now.

Judd: I kinda feel like you should do some impressions, since we're on audio now.

(Jim does an impression.) Judd: Now do your Clint Eastwood face!

Ben: Come on, dude. I was just watching that on YouTube. There is this incredible YouTube video of you doing all the impressions, from the early days- Jim: Well, yeah, I was on the Johnny Carson show. Remember him?

Judd: You were on with Johnny? Did you meet Johnny Carson, or- Jim: I was on twice with Johnny. He was awesome, man! I loved him. He was on something, for sure, but- Judd: He had questionable years of sobriety.

Jim: I don't know what he was doing, but he had energy to burn. It was crazy. Between commercials he'd just be looking at you out of the corner of his eye and drumming with the pencils or something and going (giggles manically, sniffs). Just, like, going like the hounds of h.e.l.l. He was like a child. A man-child.

Judd: I remember Ben and I being somewhat shocked at your energy level, too. Take after take after take-it literally threw me as a person that it was possible.

Jim: I'm a desperate human being.

Judd: Do you feel like you're needier now or then?

Jim: I'm definitely in more pain now than I was.

Ben: Me too! I'll join you there.

Judd: Does success bring about peace and calm, or more pain?

Jim: When you start to realize that peace and calm are not actually gonna help you in the business-that they'll actually be bad for you-that's when the real divide happens. When you go, Oh, I could work towards peace, I could find bliss, but I won't have a career. It's all about abandonment, it's all about need, it's all about worthlessness. If I remain worthless in my own mind, I will be the king of show business.

Ben: The building blocks of success.

Judd: I remember John Cleese-he knows he's not as funny anymore, but he says he doesn't care because he's happier now. But I have to say, he seems pretty p.i.s.sed lately and he's been pretty funny. He got divorced recently.

Jim: Oh yeah, there you go.

Ben: Pain and humor go together.

Ben: There's David Cross! Left side of the frame.

Jim: David Cross! We love David Cross. How many people were in this movie? We started the industry!

Judd: Sometimes when I watch this movie-I always thought it was going to be some kind of wild roller-coaster ride that'd also be, like, super-fun and delightful. But then, it has true madness in it.

Ben: I think it was a roller-coaster ride, it's just that it was going down the whole time. The big drop.

Jim: I disagree. I think it's sublime.

Ben: No, but it's a fun drop.

Judd: I remember when Jim said at the end of the movie, "I have to die. I need to jump off the tower and die."

Jim: Yeah.

Ben: Well, you should have died, that's the thing.

Jim: I really should have. When you go halfway, it never works.

Ben: That's my fault. I take responsibility.

Judd: They weren't going to let us kill you.

Jim: People don't understand, truly, how warped you are, Ben. They haven't even scratched the surface. Your iceberg is large under sea level there.

Judd: Ben, this was the second movie you directed, after Reality Bites, but did you feel like, Oh, I'm not getting as much acting work at this time, so that's why I'm gonna direct? Or-how do you decide how much acting to do? It takes so long to direct.

Ben: Well, this was a weird period in time. I sort of had a career as an actor but not really- Jim: (Pretends to wake up from snoring) Sorry, guys!

Ben: Let's go back to the beginning-when I was about fifteen I played with the idea of becoming an actor.

Jim: You didn't direct for quite some time after Cable Guy, did you?