Second Shetland Truck System Report Part 170

6720. But you would not retain it if he was only in debt to you for shop goods?-I think not.

6721. What is your reason for making that distinction?-I think it is nothing but simple justice to myself. It would certainly be very unreasonable for a man to get remuneration for a boat from the Shipwrecked Fishermen's Society while the same boat was standing unpaid for in my books.

6722. Would the same principle not apply to the case of an account which a man owed to you?-No doubt the man would be ent.i.tled to pay me that account; but I would certainly consider it a great hardship if I had to pay that money over to a man who had an account standing due in my books for the very boat for the loss of which the money was given.

6723. Have you ever had any dispute with the fishermen about the payment of that money, or any complaints that it was not settled for in cash?-I don't think I have, within my recollection. I think there was one man who said something about it at one time; but after I had showed to him what I considered to be the justice of the matter, I fancied he was satisfied, and never heard any more about it.

6724. What is the other book you have brought with you?-It is a boat-book, merely for entries relating to the boats.

6725. How are the boat-builders paid? Do they run accounts with you in the same way as the fishermen?-I think so.

6726. Are they paid by weekly wages?-No; they are paid so much for building a boat.

6727. What does their contract generally amount to?-We furnish the wood, and merely pay them for [Page 163] their work. I think we generally pay 3 for the work on a six-oared boat.

6728. When you enter into a contract for the building of a boat, does the man open an account, or is it generally the case that he has an account already running?-The builder I employ generally has an account running.

6729. Are his family and himself supplied with goods from your shop from time to time?-Only occasionally. I think the boats are paid for mostly in cash. Probably he would get a few pounds from me if he was requiring them, and then he would come and build boats for me afterwards.

6730. Are the boat-builders a cla.s.s of men by themselves, who work at nothing else?-Yes.

6731. Do they travel about the country?-Yes.

6732. Are they not employed by you all the year round?-No.

6733. Then, they generally get an advance of money from you before they begin work for you?-I don't say generally, but I say the particular builder I employ has done that sometimes.

6734. So that, when his boat is finished, he has generally nothing to get?-No; he has something to get still, because he is building more than one at a time.

6735. But during the time he is building them, he has an account at your shop for necessaries to his family?-Yes.

6736. What is the other book you have there?-It is a ledger for the purpose of entering anything into-goods supplied to a family.

6737. Are these the families of your fishermen?-Yes; or it may be others that we intend to have short accounts.

6738. But these accounts are only for goods supplied: there is nothing entered that is due to them?-No.

6739. The other side of the account is not in this book at all?-No.

6740. And the fishermen's ledger is quite different?-Yes.

6741. It is a large book?-Yes.

6742. Is there a separate ledger for beach boys and men employed in fish-curing?-Yes.

6743. Is there also a separate ledger for the kelp women?-No; their accounts are entered in the women's book unless they are paid right off.

6744. Show me the account of one of these kelp women in the women's book: take Mrs. Hughson?-I don't think she ever had anything to get, and therefore we would not enter her name in the book.

6745. Take Maria Sandison, who was spoken of today?-I think her account was kept on a slip of paper or in a small book, until they got it squared off, and then it was entered.

6746. I see there is nothing about kelp in her account?-No, I fancy it was just paid off at the time.

6747. Is there anything else you wish to say?-It has been a.s.serted that the fish-curers paid no cash, and that scarcely a coin pa.s.sed between the curer and the fisherman. That was said before the Truck Commissioners in Edinburgh. Now, I would wish to show what amount of cash I have paid since I began to settle this year. I think the cash I paid during the settling time in November and December last amounted to 1006.

6748. What was it in previous years?-I cannot tell for every year; but I know that for the whole year, in 1866, I paid 1811 in cash, and in 1870 I paid 2040. I think the highest I paid to one man this season was 24, 7s. 9d. in cash at settlement.

6749. Was that much higher than the average?-It must have been higher. Perhaps I may be allowed to say also, that I think the great bar to improvement in Shetland is the want of leases. In my opinion, a Land Bill for Shetland-an Act somewhat resembling the Irish Land Bill-would be very useful, by which all improvements could be held to belong to the tenant instead of to the proprietor; because as soon as a tenant here begins to improve his farm, he is very likely to have his rent raised upon him.

6750. Have you known cases in which the rent has been raised upon an improving tenant?-Yes. I am not prepared just now to give names, but I think I have met with several cases of that kind.

6751. What is the bar to the introduction of a system of leases in Shetland, which, you say, would greatly improve the country?- There seems to be an unwillingness on the part of the proprietors to give lease. I have known several parties who have asked for leases and have not got them.

6752. Has the unwillingness of the proprietors to give leases anything to do with the fishing?-I don't think it.

6753. On some properties are not yearly tenants under an obligation to fish, which might be interfered with, or which might not be so easily enforceable, there were leases?-That shows the necessity granting leases.

6754. But is not the objection of proprietors to grant leases due to some extent to the fact, that it would be less easy to enforce the obligation to fish if leases existed?-Perhaps it is, but even on those estates where there is no such obligation leases are not granted.

6755. Is there a general desire on the part of fishermen-farmers in Shetland to have leases?-I cannot say that exactly. I think there is such desire in many cases, but then they fear that their rent would be raised if a lease were granted.

6756. Have there been any cases of leases being granted or offered in which ground has been given for that apprehension?-I think so, although I could not name them just now.

6757. Have there been any attempts made recently in Shetland to introduce leases on a larger scale than they at present exist?- Not within my knowledge. With regard to the Ollaberry property, I find there are only 33 out of 71 tenants who fish either to Anderson & Co. or to me.

6758. Are you aware whether the other 38 tenants fish at all?- There are some of them who do not fish, but there are others of them who do, and who are ling fishers. The man Blance who was examined goes to Faroe and I think another man too.

6759. Do many of them go to Faroe?-No; not many.

6760. They are not obliged to engage with any particular person at the Faroe fishing?-No.

6761. In the evidence to which you have referred as having been given in Edinburgh, there is a statement that leases were offered on a large estate in Delting or in Yell, but that the bulk of the tenants would not accept of them: do you know the reason of that?-Because, I suspect, they were suspicious of the factor.

6762. The statement was, 'Ten years was mentioned as the minimum length of the lease, because the people were frightened to take leases; but when any one came and asked for a longer lease, I gave it to him. No one would take a longer lease than fourteen years, and I have given none longer than fourteen.' Can you suggest any other reason than that you have named for the tenants declining leases on these estates?-I think it must have been because under the leases, all improvements were to be held to belong to the landlord.

6763. But they belong to the landlord at present?-True; but what I mean is, that that is the great bar to improvements in Shetland.

6764. Do you think it is possible for a man to improve his land much who is employed for four or five months in the year fishing?-I think it is. His time in winter is almost thrown away at present; but if he had the security of getting the value of his labour at the end of his lease or on removing, I think he would work actively and improve his land. There are many, I know, who have regretted that they could not spend their time in that way.

6765. Is it not possible for a tenant who wants to improve his land to make some contract with his landlord on the subject?-I have never been aware of any case where that has been done.

6766. Have you the management of the Ollaberry estate in your own hands?-Yes.

6767. Have you made any effort to induce the people [Page 164] there to take leases, or offered them compensation for improvements?-I have not offered them compensation. I could not do that; but I have told them that the understanding on which they held their lands was this-that if they made improvements, either in cultivating the land, keeping up their fences, or repairing their houses, their rents would not be raised during my lease.

6768. You have only a lease of Ollaberry?-Yes, for nineteen years.

6769. Has your intimation to the tenants, that their rents would not be raised if they improved their holdings, had a beneficial effect?-I think it has in some cases; that is to say, they have kept up their fences very well, and I know some parties who have added to their cultivated ground.