Correspondence Relating to Executions in Turkey for Apostacy from Islamism Part 10

Inclosure 2 in No. 30.

_Answer of Rifaat Pasha to M. Pisani, February_ 22, 1844.

Aucune nouvelle demarche n'etait necessaire pour nous faire sentir l'importance de cette question, importance dont nous sommes profondement penetres. Nous la traitons avec tout le serieux et tous les soins que sa gravite exige. Oui, ce que vos chefs respectifs disent est vrai; cette question a son cote politique aussi bien que son cote religieux. Il faut en effet que nous nous separions de la nation, ou bien des Puissances Chretiennes; ce sont la deux grands maux egalement a eviter. Le Sultan a ordonne que cette question soit discutee dans un Conseil d'Oulemas qui s'ouvrira Samedi prochain chez le Sheik-ul-Islam, auquel seront appeles le Cazi-Asker et d'autres notabilites parmi les hommes de loi; apres quoi, le Conseil des Ministres s'en occupera de nouveau. Ne croyez-pas au reste que nous nous soyons bornes a appeler leur attention purement et simplement sur la question sous le rapport religieux; nous leur avons remis aussi les protocoles des conferences, les depeches des deux Gouvernemens, et meme des extraits des journaux qui ont agite cette question, et nous leur communiquerons egalement les instructions que vous venez de me remettre, et qui, bien que superflues pour la Porte, peuvent encore ajouter a l'impression produite par les autres pieces qui sont entre leurs mains. Comme nous ne devons pas douter des bonnes intentions des Puissances, nous esperons que MM. les Representans d'Angleterre et de France, dans leur haute sagesse et avec l'esprit d'equite qui les anime, ne se refuseront pas a prendre en consideration les graves difficultes qui existent, et qu'ils se preteront a amener une solution qui nous sauverait des deux maux que je vous ai signales. C'est la le but que nous devons nous efforcer d'atteindre.

C'etait pour vous informer de la marche de cette affaire que je vous ai prie ce matin de pa.s.ser chez moi.

(Translation.)

No fresh step was requisite to make us sensible of the importance of this question, with which we are deeply impressed. We are dealing with it with all the seriousness and all the care which its gravity requires. Yes, what your respective chiefs say is true; this question has its political as also its religious side. It is requisite, in fact, that we should separate ourselves from the nation, or otherwise from the Christian Powers; those are two great evils to be equally avoided. The Sultan has commanded that this question shall be discussed in the Council of Oulemas which will be opened next Sat.u.r.day at the Sheik-ul-Islam's, to which the Cazi-Asker and the other princ.i.p.al persons among the men of the law will be summoned; after which, the Council of Ministers will again apply themselves to it. Do not suppose, however, that we have confined ourselves to directing their attention purely and simply to the question as it regards religion; we have likewise submitted to them the protocols of the conferences, the despatches of the two Governments, and even the extracts of the newspapers which have discussed this question, and we shall likewise communicate to them the instructions which you have just delivered to me, and which, although superfluous as far as the Porte is concerned, may still add to the impression produced by the other doc.u.ments in their hands. As we must not doubt the good intentions of the Powers, we trust that the Representatives of England and France, in their profound wisdom, and with the spirit of equity by which they are animated, will not refuse to take into consideration the serious difficulties which exist, and that they will lend themselves to bring about a solution which would preserve us from the two evils which I have pointed out to you. That is the object which we must strive to attain.

It was in order to acquaint you with the progress of this matter that I requested you to call upon me this morning.

Inclosure 3 in No. 30.

_Answer of Rifaat Pasha to M. Pisani, February_ 20, 1844.

Nous connaissons toute l'importance de la question dont il s'agit.

Mais il faut considerer que cette question n'est ni politique ni administrative, et qu'elle regarde la religion. Il faut donc que nous consultions prealablement les docteurs de la loi, et la mission d'examiner cette affaire leur a ete donnee de la part du Conseil; cette affaire reviendra ensuite au Divan.

J'accomplis ma mission, qui est celle de porter exactement a la connaissance des Ministres de la Sublime Porte tout ce que les deux Representans me disent, et je ne manquerai pas de leur faire savoir la reponse du Conseil. Ainsi, non seulement je ne suis pas a meme de repondre aujourd'hui, mais il m'est encore impossible de vous dire avec precision quel jour je pourrais vous la donner. Je ferai savoir au Conseil le message dont vous vous etes acquitte aujourd'hui.

(Translation.)

We know all the importance of the case in question. But it is necessary to consider that this question is neither one of policy nor of administration, and that it concerns religion. We must therefore first consult the doctors of the law, and the charge of inquiring into this matter has been entrusted to them by the Council; the matter will then come back to the Divan.

I discharge my duty, which is to represent exactly to the Ministers of the Sublime Porte what the two Representatives say to me, and I shall not fail to let the latter know the answer of the Council. For this reason, not only is it not in my power to give you an answer to-day, but it is also impossible for me to say to you precisely on what day I can give it to you. I will let the Council know the message which you have communicated to-day.

No. 31.

_Sir Stratford Canning to the Earl of Aberdeen_.--(_Received March_ 24.)

(Extract.) _Constantinople, March_ 3, 1844.

I have this moment received important information, and I rely so much upon its correctness that I send off an express to overtake the messenger. The Turkish Government has virtually decided on complying with your Lordship's requisition.

Rifaat Pasha has written to propose in rather urgent terms a private interview with me. I have a.s.sented to this proposal, repeating at the same time my opinion that no advantage is likely to result from it. The French Minister will be present, and we shall probably meet on the 5th.

In reply to our renewed demand for the Porte's official answer, Rifaat Pasha has pressed for an additional delay of eight or ten days, alleging that the deliberations of the Council are not yet closed.

On the expiration of that term, or shortly afterwards, I trust it will be in my power to forward the official confirmation of what I now submit to your Lordship with confidence.

No. 32.

_Lord Cowley to the Earl of Aberdeen_.--(_Received March_ 27.)

My Lord, _Paris, March_ 25, 1844.

With reference to your Lordship's despatch of the 22nd instant inclosing a copy of your instructions to Sir Stratford Canning under date the 19th instant, I have the honour to state that upon communicating those instructions to the Minister for Foreign Affairs, he a.s.sured me that he would without loss of time send instructions of a similar tenour to M. de Bourqueney, although that Minister was already in possession of the sentiments of his Government relative to those barbarous executions; which are, that the Government of France had no intention of requiring of the Ottoman Government that they should abrogate any law, but they expect a satisfactory a.s.surance in writing should be given to the Allies that the practice complained of should cease.

I have, &c.,

(Signed) COWLEY.

No. 33.

_Sir Stratford Canning to the Earl of Aberdeen_.--(_Received March_ 30.)

My Lord, _Constantinople, March_ 6, 1844.

The confidential interview to which I was invited by Rifaat Pasha, took place yesterday, and the French Minister was also present. In order to mark more emphatically the private character of this meeting we trusted entirely to Foad Effendi, who accompanied Rifaat Pasha at my request, for the interpretation of what pa.s.sed between us. I am happy to say that although the Pasha repeated all the arguments stated in M. Pisani's report, of which a copy has been already transmitted to your Lordship, nothing occurred to shake my confidence in the information previously conveyed to me and recorded in my preceding despatch. The French Minister partic.i.p.ated fully in this impression, and gave me his support in a most frank and effectual manner.

The Pasha's main position was this: if we refuse, we lose the friendship of Europe; if we consent, we hazard the peace of the empire; you come as friends, and therefore we reckon upon your helping us to find some course by which we may satisfy you without injuring ourselves.

In answer we confirmed his persuasion that our intentions were friendly; but we added that our course was prescribed by the instructions; that we could not admit the supposition of our Governments having acted without a full consideration of the consequences; and that although we were not called upon to require an express and formal repeal of the law which they termed religious, we must, at the very least, require an official declaration that effectual measures would be taken to prevent the recurrence of executions for apostacy, and a disclaimer of every idea involving insult to Christianity, or the persecution of its followers, on account of their faith.

This explanation appeared to produce a good effect on the Pasha's mind, and I observed with particular satisfaction, that he admitted that the Mufti had expressed to the Porte a personal opinion, which drew a very desirable distinction between the strict language of the law and the discretion warranted by State necessity.

Upon the whole, my Lord, it was sufficiently apparent that the objections entertained by the Porte are far from insuperable; that much of the remaining difficulty arises from the reference unwisely made to the Ulemah; and that, with every wish to escape from our demand, and every determination to give us the least acceptable degree of satisfaction, there is no intention ultimately to refuse, although it is possible that we shall not be able to obtain as complete a declaration as we could desire without a reference to London and Paris.

I have, &c.,

(Signed) STRATFORD CANNING.

No. 34.